Why is the cisgender flag grey?

[specialsauce]

Who chose this? In fact who invented all these flags?

What an extraordinary post. Why did you waste those pixels?

Also why end 'my bad face'?

Because the nasty boring old ladies aren’t taking the snarky crappy flag foisted upon them and saying ‘thank you’.

What baffles me is why, if someone dislikes coming onto a "website", they then feel obliged to post on that "website" saying so. Self-centredness, or what?

The usual thing to do if you have nothing whatever to add to a discussion is to shut the fuck up and go elsewhere, or in internet terms scroll on by.

(Incidentally, I don't think this person meant "website"; I suspect the word intended might have been "topic".)

And with MN even having a special flouncer's corner, too!

@CalamariGames

Was it designed by Mrs Hinch?

Okay yeah you're right, it's more the topic than the website.
I keep checking in to see if there's any good wholesome threads, but no. Just more of the usual, shitting on this generation and the ones after them bc they're different from you.

@ImFluidLikeWater

Okay yeah you're right, it's more the topic than the website. I keep checking in to see if there's any good wholesome threads, but no. Just more of the usual, shitting on this generation and the ones after them bc they're different from you.

Don't worry,I criticise the people who are older than me who spout this nonsense too! E.g. Owen Jones, Jameela Jamil, Suzi Ruffell. All older than me, and all copping it from me.

I'm all about equal opportunities and not being ageist!

Oh! My mistake! takes out red carpet and rolls it out I am so sorry your highness! :)

And don't you forget it!

The demise of civilisation in an image.

Crikey, did that person actually not know the flag was an actual national flag? I wonder if that same individual berates others on Twatter etc for their "ignorance" yet can't recognise the German flag - which, let's face it is not particularly obscure. Serves to highlight that gender is centre of the universe to many young people.

Facts, who needs those boring things eh?

I keep checking in to see if there's any good wholesome threads, but no.

What would count as "wholesome" for you? Because I think safeguarding the rights of women and girls is "wholesome". Damn my old-fashioned ideas!

wholesome like harmful untested medication and surgery for minors? Like genderists threatening women (but not men) who don't agree with trans ideology with rape and violence? Like trying to get people sacked for thinking perfectly legal and scientific things? It doesn't really seem like the wholesomest side of the debate to me.

But... we're not talking about women in this thread? Last time I checked, this thread was about the LGBT+ community, like, there's a whole other topic just for that?
I mean wholesome like someone actually accepting their queer kid instead of coming on Mumsnet to complain about how "There's too many labels!" and "it's just a trend with the kids!" and "my child is too young to understand!" This site has such an issue with trans people, trans women especially, that it makes me feel sad that these people exist in real life.
"like harmful untested medication and surgery for minors?" Untested medication? You do... you do realise the whole point is that you don't give untested medication to patients? Hormone blockers have been given to young people who's puberty has started early for YEARS, it's far from untested, and it's the same with surgery. Also, not minors: 16/17, so they can make their own decisions :)
"Like trying to get people sacked for thinking perfectly legal and scientific things?" They are getting sacked bc they're deliberately discriminating based on someone's gender/sexuality/both. You'd want someone who's being deliberately racist to an employee or coworker to be sacked, so why is someone being deliberately transphobic or homophobic any different?
This is not wholesome, bc y'all are being ignorant at best and toxic at worst. Insisting that none of these labels existed back in your day, and refusing to accept that the world is changing and moving on. Get a grip and stop being so childish.

Hormone blockers have been given to young people who's puberty has started early for YEARS, it's far from untested, and it's the same with surgery. Also, not minors: 16/17, so they can make their own decisions

Yes, we know. That's one of the big, big, big issues here. The consequences for girls who were prescribed GnRH agonists temporarily to delay puberty have been dire. Class action law suits are in the works.

extract

For years, Sharissa Derricott, 30, had no idea why her body seemed to be failing. At 21, a surgeon replaced her deteriorated jaw joint. She’s been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease and fibromyalgia, a chronic pain condition. Her teeth are shedding enamel and cracking.

None of it made sense to her until she discovered a community of women online who describe similar symptoms and have one thing in common: All had taken a drug called Lupron.

Thousands of parents chose to inject their daughters with the drug, which was approved to shut down puberty in young girls but also is commonly used off-label to help short kids grow taller.

The drug’s pediatric version comes with few warnings about long-term side effects. It is also used in adults to fight prostate cancer or relieve uterine pain and the Food and Drug Administration has warnings on the drug’s adult labels about a variety of side effects.

More than 10,000 adverse event reports filed with the FDA reflect the experiences of women who’ve taken Lupron. The reports describe everything from brittle bones to faulty joints.

In interviews and in online forums, women who took the drug as young girls or initiated a daughter’s treatment described harsh side effects that have been well-documented in adults.

Women who used Lupron a decade or more ago to delay puberty or grow taller described the short-term side effects listed on the pediatric label: pain at the injection site, mood swings, and headaches. Yet they also described conditions that usually affect people much later in life. A 20-year-old from South Carolina was diagnosed with osteopenia, a thinning of the bones, while a 25-year-old from Pennsylvania has osteoporosis and a cracked spine. A 26-year-old in Massachusetts needed a total hip replacement. A 25-year-old in Wisconsin, like Derricott, has chronic pain and degenerative disc disease.

“It just feels like I’m being punished for basically being experimented on when I was a child,” said Derricott, of Lawton, Okla. “I’d hate for a child to be put on Lupron, get to my age and go through the things I have been through.”

But... we're not talking about women in this thread? Last time I checked, this thread was about the LGBT+ community, like, there's a whole other topic just for that?

This is the feminism topic, so that's the kind of analysis you'll be getting on this thread.

I very much recommend that you peruse this website, Fluid

www.lupronvictimshub.com/

P.S. 16/17 year olds are minors. You can't get a tattoo until 18 in this country.

"Like trying to get people sacked for thinking perfectly legal and scientific things?" They are getting sacked bc they're deliberately discriminating based on someone's gender/sexuality/both.

She said "trying to get people sacked". Look at what happened to Prof Kathleen Stock. Plenty of people who are not "deliberately discriminating based on someone's gender/sexuality/both" have been the target of online harassment campaigns which have involved contacting their employers.

And this is how a single sulky and ignorant person can totally derail a discussion. Watched it happen. My fault, I ought to have ignored it. Apologies all.

Don't be hard on yourself, we all do it

This is highly relevant to anyone assuming treatment protocols for precocious puberty are safe and tested.

Commentary: Cognitive, Emotional, and Psychosocial Functioning of Girls Treated with Pharmacological Puberty Blockage for Idiopathic Central Precocious Puberty

Gonadotropin releasing hormone agonists (GnRHas) have been found to impair memory in adults, so the study byWojniusz et al. (2016)on the possible cognitive effects of these drugs on children treated for idiopathic central precocious puberty (CPP) represents an important contribution to research in this area. Recent findings that GnRHas increase depression symptoms (Macoveanu et al., 2016) and slow reaction time (Stenbæk et al., 2016) in healthy women, and reduce long-term spatial memory in sheep (Hough et al., 2017) underline the importance of the research thatWojniusz et al. (2016)have undertaken. However, their reassuring statement in the abstract that girls undergoing GnRHa treatment for CPP and controls “showed very similar scores with regard to cognitive performance” and their conclusion that “GnRHa treated girls do not differ in their cognitive functioning … from the same age peers” (Wojniusz et al., 2016) may be overly optimistic. These statements minimize the fairly substantial difference found in IQ scores and may also overemphasize its lack of statistical significance, as given the small number of participants in the study statistical significance has a high threshold. The statements should be qualified to indicate that the research has, in fact, reinforced concerns over the impact of GnRHas on cognitive performance in children.

Girls treated for CPP with triptorelin acetate were tested with the short form Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children III. It was found that the girls had a mean IQ of 94, as against a mean IQ of 102 for the matched control group (Wojniusz et al., 2016). These IQ estimations are presented as standardized IQ scores, which places a girl scoring 102 at the 55th percentile, and a girl scoring of 94 at the 34th percentile. It is questionable whether scores that indicate a percentile gap of this size can be described as “very similar.” The 8 point gap is not statistically significant (p= 0.09) but, as the authors point out, this may be a function of the small number of participants (15 treated girls, 15 controls).

The authors contend that despite the small number of participants the results can—probably—be relied on to indicate that if GnRHasdocause a decline in IQ, this decline will be under 1 standard deviation (SD), which “represents a boundary of what is a clinically interesting difference” (Wojniusz et al., 2016). The contention that a decline only becomes clinically interesting if it is of at least 1 standard deviation is unconvincing.
Any findings which indicate that GnRHas cause a decline, even a modest decline, in IQ are likely to be of considerable interest to patients and their parents. It is a factor that they may well want to consider in deciding whether or not to take the drug. They may, for example, wish to consider the possible effect of GnRHas on a child's school and exam performance. In this respect it can be noted that 2 of the treated girls had been held back a year at school. Given their advanced physical maturity, children with precocious puberty may find it particularly uncomfortable to be put in a class where they are a year older than their class mates. If GnRHa treatment does cause a reduction in IQ, this may contribute to the decision to place a child in a lower age year group. Certainly, treatment that has a deleterious effect on IQ will do nothing to help children who are academically behind to catch up.

Continues here:

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.00044/full#B8

This is the feminism topic, so that's the kind of analysis you'll be getting on this thread.

Specifically, the feminism board on a parenting website. Women and children are our concerns. We'd love not to be having to have these discussions and getting back to more of the sort of thing gender critical feminists always have eg recommending books for children who don't fit gender stereotypes.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4424221-Books-for-gender-non-conforming-6-yo

@ErrolTheDragon

This is the feminism topic, so that's the kind of analysis you'll be getting on this thread.

Specifically, the feminism board on a parenting website. Women and children are our concerns. We'd love not to be having to have these discussions and getting back to more of the sort of thing gender critical feminists always have eg recommending books for children who don't fit gender stereotypes.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4424221-Books-for-gender-non-conforming-6-yo

This. This is what it boils down to.

Safeguarding and being honest with our kids is more important than pandering to feelings. All the other stuff, especially if followed to its conclusion is what's damaging and harmful.

@Skysblue

Wtf is up with all the militant stuff. “Allies” flags blah blah grow up.

the kind of people who say this are the same to wrap their house in union jack bunting