Penn’s Lia Thomas breaks 200/500 Free records in meet with Princeton, Cornell

[Helleofabore]

USA women’s freestyle swimming records were broken this weekend!!!

To all those who keep using the ‘scale’ argument to justify inclusion of males in female sport, tell us again how it takes more than one male competing in female sport to significantly and negatively impact that sport?

I am very happy to hear your well thought out and evidenced reasoning.

swimswam.com/penns-lia-thomas-breaks-200-500-free-records-in-meet-with-princeton-cornell/

Penn’s Lia Thomas blasted the number one 200 free time and the second-fastest 500 free time in the nation on Saturday, breaking Penn program records in both events. She swept the 100-200-500 free individual events and contributed to the first-place 400 free relay in a tri-meet against Princeton and Cornell in her home pool.

Sounds wonderful until you realise that for their first three years competing in the competition, they competed as a male.

twitter.com/coachblade/status/1465517693386121217?s=21

Coach Linda Blade’s tweet says :

Well of course women’s records are being smashed!

Lia competed as male for first three years in #NCAA.

This is not right!

We need to return to #SexBasedSports!

#SexNotGender to preserve fairness for female athletes.

@Datun

This is a comment from Twitter.

I'm not particularly into sports, but this has made me think less of sportspeople. Seems anything goes as long as you win. There is no honour in it. I know women particularly are afraid to speak out, but surely most sportspeople think this is completely unfair?

I agree. Although, more about the organisations rather than the participants.

I've always thought of sport as aspirational, it has a certain decency involving self respect and self discipline. Obviously, winning is the goal, but competition, and being competitive is very exposing, and reveals a lot about one's personality and character.

I always thought of the IOC as a highly respected organisation. The Olympics as the ultimate sporting goal - glorious, illustrious, impressive.

Now I think they're all lying, cheating misogynistic bastards. Worthless.

If men like Harrop have brought the medical profession into disrepute, then these men have dragged sport into exactly the same depths. Worse really.

This.

I cannot articulate my despair well enough so I'll just requote.

I thought it was handy to have the times so far:

100 Free
20/11 49.42
5/12 51.94
22/1/22 50.55

200 Free

20/11 1.43.47
5/12 1.41.93
8/1/22 1.48.73
22/1/22. 1.47.08

500 Free

20/11 4.35.06
5/12 4.34.06
8/1/22 4.57.20

1650 Free

5/12. 15.59.71

Well colour me utterly in shocked

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10445679/Lia-Thomas-UPenn-teammate-says-trans-swimmer-doesnt-cover-genitals-locker-room.html

Just unbelievable theeyeballsinthesky and yet at the same time utterly predictable that this person would be the type of person who gets their kicks out of exposing themselves to women.

Oh I thought the response to the Staniland question from multiple well off Americans was that communal changing rooms don't exist in naice parts of the US.

I have to say I don't read that as Lia enjoying flashing necessarily. It's just that unless you have a separate cubicle and go in and come out fully dressed, which is quite a pain with swimming where you might want to dry your hair in a heated changing room and the temperature id set for half naked people, if someone has a penis, women are going to see it. I don't have to assume Lia's intentions are bad to see the inevitable negative effect on every single woman in the squad.

Thanks for posting eyeball. That is chilling yet unsurprising.

I've always thought of sport as aspirational, it has a certain decency involving self respect and self discipline. Obviously, winning is the goal, but competition, and being competitive is very exposing, and reveals a lot about one's personality and character.

I always thought of the IOC as a highly respected organisation. The Olympics as the ultimate sporting goal - glorious, illustrious, impressive.

I don't think elite sport in general, and the Olympics in particular, has been about those things for a long time. I'm middle aged and even when I was a girl they were more about winning by any means necessary, nationalism, pushing young athletes even if it destroyed their bodies in hopes of producing a few stars, and above all, money money money.

I have to say I don't read that as Lia enjoying flashing necessarily. It's just that unless you have a separate cubicle and go in and come out fully dressed, which is quite a pain with swimming where you might want to dry your hair in a heated changing room and the temperature id set for half naked people, if someone has a penis, women are going to see it

I've changed under a towel plenty of times without anyone seeing anything they shouldn't. If you want to be discreet, you can.

If you're getting a kick of showing off your bits in the women's changing room, then clearly that's what'll happen. But it's absolutely avoidable if the will is there.

On that I agree with you Motorina.

If others are seeing a penis, a penis is on display.

I am simply astonished that someone who has so little respect for women as to trample all over our sports also doesn’t think it matters that women generally prefer not to get changed around penises, or have to see penises while we get changed.

Who could have imagined that?

How respectful.

I have to say I don't read that as Lia enjoying flashing necessarily.

Oh, come off it. Obviously he does or he wouldn't be in the women's changing rooms.

Or maybe he enjoys watching more - it's possible it's more the voyeurism.

Or maybe it is just the power-over-women thrill.

So I guess I have agree with you - the flashing might not be the primary motivation. But clearly his intentions are bad.

He's intentionally swimming in their events, and intentionally invading a female space.

Nothing is stopping him doing the right thing here. Right?

Maybe there's some policy meaning he can't swim with the other men I'm unaware of, but there's absolutely no reason for him to enter the female changing room.

If all us other men can handle not entering female changing rooms, why is it so hard for him? (Pun not intended).

Maybe there's some policy meaning he can't swim with the other men I'm unaware of

Unlikely since only last week they were reporting that a “trans man” had beaten Lia in the women’s event. Trans people are obviously able to chose whichever event they fancy. The women’s event has become a mixed sex and mixed “gender” category.

Just one of the latest articles here, when I have time I will add more so we have them all together. I suspect that this situation will be ongoing for quite a while.

Here is another thread too:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4465281-Lia-Thomas-again

www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/02/03/lia-thomas-penn-swimming-teammates/

Here is the USA Swimming policy

www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/usa-swimming-policy-19.pdf

However, Thomas is not a member of USA Swimming.

The NCAA have responded with an IOC like model- putting it back on the sport

www.ncaa.org/news/2022/1/19/media-center-board-of-governors-updates-transgender-participation-policy.aspx

And here is another thread too about the discussion on the new guidance.

This has been a vital case that has pushed many people to get off the fence. And now some quick redrafts are being made of policies.

What has been clear though is the pressure on the team mates to remain silent - but they are not. 39 on the team (I assume Thomas is one of these) and 16 broke ranks to sign a letter (names withheld) of asking uni not to fight to allow Thomas to compete specifically. I assume more would not put their names anywhere near something traceable.

This has all happened quite quickly when you think about it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4470137-Lia-Thomas-New-Trans-Athlete-Guidance

And it is all happening.

Thomas just swam 500 free in 4:37.32 so I will just add that.

500 Free

20/11 4.35.06
5/12 4.34.06
8/1/22 4.57.20
17/2/22 4:37.32

And beat the second place getter by 7 seconds. Congratulations to the actual winner - Catherine Buroker.

Tweets like this one are just trolling I think.

Congratulations to Lia Thomas! An amazing woman who keeps smashing every single record there is in women’s swimming!

twitter.com/ultradox2000/status/1494576206959816725?s=21

I will add more times as I find them.

Here is the schedule.

ivyleague.com/sports/2022/1/20/WSWIM_0120220607.aspx

Today is 200 free

Tomorrow is

100 free
400 free
1650 free

Thomas has won the 200 free as well with a time of 1:43.12.

200 Free

20/11 1.43.47
5/12 1.41.93
8/1/22 1.48.73
22/1/22. 1.47.08
18/2/22 1:43.12

apnews.com/3aa9ce2193b56e3d68f13543b060245a

NBC telling it how it is really.

Thomas is a transgender woman and former male swimmer for the Quakers, and has followed NCAA and Ivy League rules since she began her transition in 2019 by starting hormone replacement therapy.

They us this as a highlight paragraph as well as in the article.

Plus Thomas has broken another ‘pool’ record there.

Seems determined to not break their own ‘records’ this time. But certainly not far off them.

All with a distance swimmer’s kick according to Sharron Davies.

I will post tomorrow’s results too.

Thomas won the 100 free in 47.63 seconds.

100 Free
20/11 49.42
5/12 51.94
22/1/22 50.55
20/1/22 47.63

Another pool and meet record.

Thomas’ time is the eighth fastest in the nation this season, according to Swim Cloud. They shaved nearly 1.5 seconds off their best time this season.

Thomas also helped the Quakers win the meet’s final event, the 400 freestyle relay. Penn’s 3: 17.80 time set a new pool record and was the first Ivy League championships relay win in program history. Thomas was named the highest swimming point scorer of the meet. Penn finished in third place overall.

They chose not to swim the 1650 free.

Let’s see what happens next.

Adding Thomas' NCAA times here. The NCAA championships is happening now.

In the preliminaries of the 500Y Thomas has swum

4.33.82

The next competitor, Erica Sullivan from Texas swam 4.36.79.

Tylor Mathieu from Florida missed out on a place in the final.

I will keep adding once we get more through. However,

500 Free

20/11 4.35.06
5/12 4.34.06
8/1/22 4.57.20
17/2/22 4:37.32
17/3/22 4.33.82

Keeping in mind that the NCAA record is held by Katie Ledecky with 4:24.06 in 2017 it could be that that particular record is safe. Still, Thomas could win the final, I am not sure what Sullivan is capable of swimming. We shall know overnight though.

Here are also Thomas' 'top times' as a male competitor:

TOP TIMES
200 Free … 1:39.31
500 Free … 4:18.72
1,000 Free … 8:55.75
1,650 Free … 14:54.76
200 IM … 1:56.51
400 IM … 4:32.55

pennathletics.com/sports/mens-swimming-and-diving/roster/will-thomas/14590

Erica Sullivan won silver in the women’s 1500m at the Tokyo Olympics

Ahhh... that is where I remember the name. And that is 1500 m so nearly equivalent to the 1650 yds. Well, that will be an interesting race. I wonder if Thomas will even do that race knowing that Erica may be swimming it.

She swam 15:41.41 in 1500 m at the Olympics. She has a pb of 15:23.81 for the 1650 yd free apparently.

swimswam.com/2022-w-ncaa-previews-will-erica-sullivan-win-the-1650-from-the-early-heats/

A lot of comment on Twitter about how little effort seemed to be being made by Lia. Very little evidence of strong leg kicks compared to the women in the race.

Thomas won the 500Y final

500 Free 4:33.24

20/11 4.35.06
5/12 4.34.06
8/1/22 4.57.20
17/2/22 4:37.32
17/3/22 4.33.82 prelim (fastest qualifier)
17/3/22 4:33.24 final (winner)