Penn’s Lia Thomas breaks 200/500 Free records in meet with Princeton, Cornell

[Helleofabore]

USA women’s freestyle swimming records were broken this weekend!!!

To all those who keep using the ‘scale’ argument to justify inclusion of males in female sport, tell us again how it takes more than one male competing in female sport to significantly and negatively impact that sport?

I am very happy to hear your well thought out and evidenced reasoning.

swimswam.com/penns-lia-thomas-breaks-200-500-free-records-in-meet-with-princeton-cornell/

Penn’s Lia Thomas blasted the number one 200 free time and the second-fastest 500 free time in the nation on Saturday, breaking Penn program records in both events. She swept the 100-200-500 free individual events and contributed to the first-place 400 free relay in a tri-meet against Princeton and Cornell in her home pool.

Sounds wonderful until you realise that for their first three years competing in the competition, they competed as a male.

twitter.com/coachblade/status/1465517693386121217?s=21

Coach Linda Blade’s tweet says :

Well of course women’s records are being smashed!

Lia competed as male for first three years in #NCAA.

This is not right!

We need to return to #SexBasedSports!

#SexNotGender to preserve fairness for female athletes.

Thomas, who swam as Will Thomas on the Quakers’ men’s team as a freshman, sophomore, and junior, took the 2020-21 season off and is swimming with the women’s team as a senior this season. She told Penn Today, “Being trans has not affected my ability to do this sport and being able to continue is very rewarding.”

Words fail me.

Being trans has not affected my ability to do this sport

It’s always been obvious the estrogen makes sod all difference but thanks for confirming, Lia.

I honestly thought swimming wouldn’t be affected because the differences are so utterly stark, no only in performance but also standing on the blocks. Did Thomas wear a full women’s race suit? Words fail me.

Just in case anyone is under the delusion that women can compete on an equal footing with men in swimming.

“Being trans has not affected my ability to do this sport and being able to continue is very rewarding.”

Words fail me alright.

I’m letting that quote sink in. And this person is studying at supposedly a fine university.

No dear, being ‘trans’ meant you could just wipe the floor in the female category… despite taking significant training time off. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand why.

The gaslighting I see coming from people who are absolutely entrenched in the ideology is immense. I understand that it may not be deliberate, but it comes from an ideology that has deliberately made statements like that.

I remember listening to Mianne Bagger, who convinced Golf in the 00s to allow males to compete in the female division, when they finally understood that they competed with their male advantage. The realization must have been very distressing that they had placed and been rewarded because they were male, not because they were the best female at the time.

It's some small comfort I suppose to read the comments underneath the linked article - overwhelmingly supportive of the women whose achievements are being wiped out.

But what a complete nonsense this situation is.

And how long will those records stand?

Don’t worry ladies, just try harder next time.

Oh… you are already training at maximum you can without putting your body into significant danger of life limiting health issues when you are older?

Don’t worry, you just weren’t good enough.

Imagine how great it would be if Lia had continued after transition in the men's category. Had campaigned for it to be an open category. I would love to be able to support Lia in that.

I will never understand what is going on in the head of someone telling themselves that this is perfectly fine and they are doing the right thing. It's so obviously, egregiously wrong.

Someone in comments said that it wasn't Lisa's fault as they were not breaking any rules. This was followed by a sharp rebuttal by someone stating that Lia has deliberately chosen to compete with women while knowing full well that they had an enormous advantage.
Males who identify as women and compete in female sports, know full well they are cheating.

Helleofabore

"Don’t worry ladies, just try harder next time."

Unfortunately, someone in the comments section virtually said that, saying that this swimmer would eneable the other women to swim faster.
I am really sick and tired of this whole charade, the cheating in plain sight, the obvious taking the piss out of women's sport, the demoralising effect on young women's/girl's involvement in sport.
I am afraid that the only way this will change, is a demonstration by the women athletes, a refusal to dive into the water or start a race on the track.

Males who identify as women and compete in female sports, know full well they are cheating.

Of course they do.

The IOC said sporting bodies need to come up with their own rules. FINA need to step up immediately. If Thomas makes it to the Paris Olympics in just under 3 years’ time and beats Ariane Titmus and Katie Ledecky, two of the greatest female swimmers the world has ever seen, it would be the greatest act of sporting scandal ever, bigger than any others, because it would have been sanctioned beforehand rather than discovered after the fact.

I saw that comment 334.

It is like those who state it isn’t Hubbard’s fault that they were given the opportunity. Well, yes. It is. They took the opportunity knowing they had those advantages. No matter how people twist it, the science is now out there and is known.

These males are making deliberate choices. There is no question. And it simply doesn’t matter if you are a small stature male playing football with giant females at a regional division. That just makes you a mediocre male and perhaps one who has prioritised their body shape over fitness and have been rewarded for it. Yay!!! Something to celebrate hey!!!

Just watching the teams walk out, the difference between the men and women was starkly clear. When the women stripped their jackets off, I noticed what broad shoulders they have as swimming athletes. Then the men stripped off and and are almost a caricature in their triangular form. Their shoulders were massive, in comparison with the women's.

How can that difference in physique and size be overlooked? I mean, it's not as if the women fielded were not at the peak of training. It's not because they hadn't tried hard enough.

I did smile at the use of 'This never happens!', in a different context!

@andyoldlabour

Helleofabore

"Don’t worry ladies, just try harder next time."

Unfortunately, someone in the comments section virtually said that, saying that this swimmer would eneable the other women to swim faster.
I am really sick and tired of this whole charade, the cheating in plain sight, the obvious taking the piss out of women's sport, the demoralising effect on young women's/girl's involvement in sport.
I am afraid that the only way this will change, is a demonstration by the women athletes, a refusal to dive into the water or start a race on the track.

Yes. The future significant negative effects from pushing the body beyond peak performance to win is never considered.

Like rugby and gridiron, where the players are getting bigger and bigger and players suffer significant health repercussions because of it. Those who are bigger and those being injured by those players.

It is madness.

NotBadConsidering

It may take this though for swimming Australia to start acting.

Exactly, pickle. I remember watching the GB swimming team, men and women, being interviewed on a TV after the mixed relay. They were straight out of the pool so still in their swimsuits. The men were just enormous compared to the women - and you can bet the women would make the average person (eg me) look like a feeble weakling.

It's all blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain-cell, but apparently no, it's all so hard and complicated and we just can't understand properly.

Yes, a threat to “Arnie’s” crown, the current Queen of the Pool? Her coach Dean Boxall, will not be shy in letting them know either.

Senator Claire Chandler is fundraising to introduce an amendment to the Sex Discrimination Act to deliberately protect women’s and girls’ sport.

And for any poster wanting to bring up the ‘Phelps’ argument, please listen to this podcast.

play.acast.com/s/realscienceofsport/bonus-episode-facts-and-fallacies-in-the-trans-athlete-debat

Oh, and as Dr Hilton says, Phelp’s records are being broken. By men. By men with different body shapes to Phelps.

So if you have ever used the Phelps argument, time to stop and maybe actually read up on the science before finding another false ‘gotcha’.

It is like those who state it isn’t Hubbard’s fault that they were given the opportunity. Well, yes. It is.

Hubbard and every TRA campaign for the opportunity. Lobbying sports federations, governments and the IOC.

This is entirely deliberate. It's the goal. The fought for outcome.

They talk as though it's all just a happy accident that they can legitimately exploit. No. Its something that has been deliberately campaigned for for years.

It's cheating. The fact they fought to legalise it is irrelevant to that premise.

Men being able to legally rape their wives until 1992 didn't mean it wasn't rape.

I love Claire Chandler! She is awesome!! ❤️

I despair.

To expand on Emma Hilton’s point about Phelps:

The only record Phelps still holds is the 400m individual medley, others have now swum faster than him. This is an incredibly technical event, with turns that can be the difference between medals; there are turns within each 100m, then a turn from butterfly to backstroke, backstroke to breaststroke, then to breaststroke to freestyle. Phelps was exceptional at this and it wasn’t down to his long fucking arms. Phelps’s world record for this event is only 1.34 seconds faster than the next fastest person, Ryan Lochte, a difference of 0.5%. Phelps’s record is 22.5 seconds faster than the women’s record holder, Katinka Hosszú, a difference of almost 10%. The same 10% difference between Bolt’s world 100m record and that of Flo Jo.

Phelps just happened to be consistently better than everyone else across the board for a time and was technically outstanding, it was not his long. Fucking. Arms.

No photos of the victorious Lia in the article- wonder why not?

This is a comment from Twitter.

I'm not particularly into sports, but this has made me think less of sportspeople. Seems anything goes as long as you win. There is no honour in it. I know women particularly are afraid to speak out, but surely most sportspeople think this is completely unfair?

I agree. Although, more about the organisations rather than the participants.

I've always thought of sport as aspirational, it has a certain decency involving self respect and self discipline. Obviously, winning is the goal, but competition, and being competitive is very exposing, and reveals a lot about one's personality and character.

I always thought of the IOC as a highly respected organisation. The Olympics as the ultimate sporting goal - glorious, illustrious, impressive.

Now I think they're all lying, cheating misogynistic bastards. Worthless.

If men like Harrop have brought the medical profession into disrepute, then these men have dragged sport into exactly the same depths. Worse really.