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Penn’s Lia Thomas breaks 200/500 Free records in meet with Princeton, Cornell

447 replies

Helleofabore · 30/11/2021 07:51

USA women’s freestyle swimming records were broken this weekend!!!

To all those who keep using the ‘scale’ argument to justify inclusion of males in female sport, tell us again how it takes more than one male competing in female sport to significantly and negatively impact that sport?

I am very happy to hear your well thought out and evidenced reasoning.

swimswam.com/penns-lia-thomas-breaks-200-500-free-records-in-meet-with-princeton-cornell/

Penn’s Lia Thomas blasted the number one 200 free time and the second-fastest 500 free time in the nation on Saturday, breaking Penn program records in both events. She swept the 100-200-500 free individual events and contributed to the first-place 400 free relay in a tri-meet against Princeton and Cornell in her home pool.

Sounds wonderful until you realise that for their first three years competing in the competition, they competed as a male.

twitter.com/coachblade/status/1465517693386121217?s=21

Coach Linda Blade’s tweet says :

Well of course women’s records are being smashed!

Lia competed as male for first three years in #NCAA.

This is not right!

We need to return to #SexBasedSports!

#SexNotGender to preserve fairness for female athletes.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/12/2021 17:28

Very good articles in the Mail. Did the BBC or the Guardian cover these unbelievable swimming records I wonder??

CatsOperatingInGangs · 07/12/2021 17:32

These articles are fantastic at highlighting the issue. Every time an athlete moves from the mens competition into the women’s there will be global scrutiny because the general public know IT IS UNFAIR on women.

Their supporters can wail on Twitter about being victimised but quite frankly it’s fair game if one expects the whole world to ignore your male advantage in sport. If one chooses to shit on one’s female competitors, expect serious pushback and media scrutiny.

Ekofisk · 07/12/2021 17:51

Much as I dislike Piers Morgan (and indeed the Mail), he’s articulated the absolute unfairness of trans competitors in women’s sport very well.

More sunlight.

Motorina · 07/12/2021 18:10

I hate, hate, hate agreeing with the Daily Mail on anything. However... the latest article is not at all 'Mail-like' and includes a video of one of the races. Two things are striking. Firstly, just how far ahead Thomas is of second place. Secondly, the second place finisher is greeted with cheers and applause. Thomas? Nothing. They know.

Ekofisk · 07/12/2021 19:23

Interesting lack of stroke / turn / finish judges there too. I know it’s freestyle but there’s still something like 30 ways to get disqualified.

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Helleofabore · 10/12/2021 17:15

Here is another swim win. Sorry it is a video in a twitter link.

twitter.com/weRessential/status/1468810186357891079?s=20

Thomas wins this race by 40 seconds apparently. It is very noticeable the advantage here. Laps ahead of second place.

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PermanentTemporary · 10/12/2021 18:03

Obviously it's much easier to see the problem when lia wins. But winning isn't the point. She's in the wrong category. And of course there's a woman who should be in that team who isn't.

334bu · 10/12/2021 19:03

How can anyone watch that and say this is fair competition.

Needmoresleep · 11/12/2021 08:14

A very good article. The Mail are not letting this go.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10298137/SECOND-UPenn-swimmer-speaks-against-trans-Lia-Thomas-competing-womens-team-crowd-silent.html

Needmoresleep · 11/12/2021 08:20

For completeness, and because it popped up on Google, this is the Mail’s story yesterday.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10294287/UPenn-coach-obsessed-winning-backed-trans-swimmer-Lia-Thomas.html

So the team are told not to say anything, but two have already voiced anonymous complains to US sports media/websites. The one in today’s article is particularly articulate. I will see if I can find the source article that the Mail refers to.

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Helleofabore · 11/12/2021 08:58

Thank you for those links.

I wonder if these young women will together have to power to change the rules?

It certainly must hurt to hear ‘I was cruising’ when that male is breaking female records. And shows a complete lack of self awareness and empathy. But I guess, if you have been told you are now just the same as any woman and fully supported with no negativity being allowed at all, there is no feedback mechanism to make you think otherwise.

The chinks in the amour are showing now. I wonder if the Olympic swimmers will be making any movement to get the rules changed too. Considering the pressure on them to STFU, I doubt they will. Those applying the pressure know full well that this is a travesty.

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Needmoresleep · 11/12/2021 09:28

The Swimswam articles are important.

Swimming is an odd sport. Huge participation, huge levels of commitment for even County levels of swimming but little wider public interest outside the Olympics. Happy to wave to others who used to deliver their DC to pools at 6.00am as they completed their 14 or so hours training a week.

Swimswam is THE website for swimming world wide, covering all levels.

Readers will know it is unfair. These are the people: swimmers; their parents and their coaches who are putting so much in, for it now to seem hopeless and pointless. Even a Katie Ledecky would be left on the bench if Lia was competing for the place. Swimswam are covering the debate. Hopefully those that set the rules will be reading and be questioned.

My daughter loved swimming. It was her life during her early teenage years. She would have felt destroyed by the unfairness if current rules had become applicable during that time.

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Helleofabore · 11/12/2021 09:59

I had a niece selected for an Olympic team and was the youngest ever selected at that point. Yet she pulled out and abandoned swimming forever because of the mental and emotional pressure on her as a 15 year old.

I never underestimate how much effort swimmers put in. And how much it impacts the family.

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EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 11/12/2021 10:06

But I guess, if you have been told you are now just the same as any woman and fully supported with no negativity being allowed at all, there is no feedback mechanism to make you think otherwise.

Socialisation, a shifted Overton Window and a more than usually distorted preference falsification. It's a heady intoxicant.

DuckDuckNo · 11/12/2021 10:57

How can you be proud of winning when you win like that? It's like.. if I challenged my small child to a competition and won, then celebrated. Have these people no sense of shame?

(And no, I am not comparing female athletes to small children, before anyone tries that angle)

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 11/12/2021 11:09

How can you be proud of winning when you win like that?

It's a very powerful immersive fiction in which they live - and nobody is challenging it.

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Helleofabore · 11/12/2021 11:23

Absolutely Duckduck and embarassing.

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Maerchentante · 11/12/2021 15:00

I spent a lot of time at pools, as coach and officiating at competitions. There were a few times I saw differences between the first and second. Usually in the first heat, where the slowest swimmers were placed, so you would get huge differences.

If that had been an all female race, everyone would assume doping, but as it is an MtF swimmer it's all "brave and stunning" and no one is "allowed" to complain.

Thomas is a cheat and should be treated as such.

Sonex · 11/12/2021 15:06

What I really hope happens is that there is a secret, underground plan such that at ten next race, everyone lines up and the women stay on the blocks, or whatever they are called. the women athletes need to all and togetherand refuse to participate. Hard to make the leap and throw away your own hard fought for competition I know, but it is what will change this.

InvisibleDragon · 11/12/2021 15:23

Not a fan of the Daily Mail but the photo caption "Lia Thomas (pictured after transition)" is pretty clever.

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Helleofabore · 11/12/2021 16:01

Yes the daily mail has a habit of mixing yds and metres too.

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TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/12/2021 16:06

@Sonex

What I really hope happens is that there is a secret, underground plan such that at ten next race, everyone lines up and the women stay on the blocks, or whatever they are called. the women athletes need to all and togetherand refuse to participate. Hard to make the leap and throw away your own hard fought for competition I know, but it is what will change this.
I wonder if that will only happen once you start to see 3 men in the race instead of 1 and nobody has any hope of first, second or even third.
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Helleofabore · 11/12/2021 17:09

Currently trending on Twitter.

So there is some other interviews etc coming on line.

twitter.com/stoatlyl/status/1469710205986512907?s=21

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Helleofabore · 11/12/2021 17:25
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