Are you watching Womanhood?

[EachandEveryone]

Its just starting on bbc2 I know they are celebs but its interesting how the ypung women are opening up to them. Really sad tbh.

What a bloody wasted opportunity. Hugely disappointing and infuriating.

On this thread, we either have blisteringly accurate piece of satire, using the usual 'be kind', 'they only want to pee', 'you'd get attacked anyway' and 'NATWALT' tropes we see ad nauseum from posters wishing to educate the nasty feminists.

Or it is just a bog standard 'the feminists just need to be kind' post, ignoring the existence of the exemptions in the Equality Act 2010 and the numerous issues around the concept of self ID. I mean, we're just going to get attacked by nutters anyway so who cares?

Poor Dr Nic. That was like pushing piss uphill.

These women simply do not understand what "trans" actually means. They think it's Hayley Cropper.

Shirley was very forgiving of men being hilariously sexist. Not a good look imo

99.999% of trans women just want to peacefully get changed in a room in which they sincerely identify, we shouldn’t be persecuting them because of one or two bad eggs
Have you ever been on Twitter, Jizzle? I don't think you'd be so confident if so.

In a programme called Womanhood, every section really focused on how women are doing womanhood wrong. Where was the emphasis on the cause of these issues (men and their misogyny)?

Same old, same old.

I bet Shirley's never been lectured that rudely by a woman for asking the most obvious question. Poor thing.

I briefly turned on and turned off when the porn "star" arrived to tell everyone how much money she makes doing webcam work, just showing pictures of her feet etc etc

To which I would refer anyone interested to the Nordic Model Now university handbook.
Chapter four, page 23 where a more realistic view is given.

nordicmodelnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/University-Handbook-ONLINE.pdf

@Stillcrikey not joining the dots was what I kept muttering to myself. I agree though that the need for women’s spaces was not well argued. I wonder when this was filmed and how much the framing was crafted pre the recent enlightenment in the BBC? A mention of sport, or the stats re MTF sex offenders, or crime recording, or women’s officers, might have helped some of those dots get joined.

I struggled also to reconcile the ‘hardness’ of the younger women towards any questioning of gender identity, with their reverence for kindness and open-mindedness.

So, was the trans person who went out with someone for 3-4 years without their partner apparently realising they were male meant to be typical of trans people?

Because if they look like they appeared on my TV I genuinely wouldn't notice they were male. But in my normal life I meet a lot of men dressed as women who are very obviously male.

I know "passing as a woman" doesn't make a person any less male but I expect it does make a difference to how people respond.

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women? In my mind that’s mad, these are people have felt like they are in the wrong body almost their entire lives, and finally feel at peace once they have transitioned.

Could one bad person attack you, sure, but they could do that anywhere. I think people have built up this fear in their heads that some blocks with a beard is going to walk in and it simply isn’t going to happen.

For me, the risk of alienating these woman who finally get to be who they have always been is far more dangerous than the risk posed by a rogue man

I bet Shirley's never been lectured that rudely by a woman for asking the most obvious question. Poor thing.

It's not often you see women set out their boundaries that easily when being questioned.

I did wonder how much of a surprise it was to the fiancé.

@partystress it's about adherence to the doctrine. You don't need to be kind to those who do not follow the teachings of the faith. In fact, it is your duty as a good and loyal acolyte to either convert or punish accordingly*

*see tt exulansic's faith-based analyses on youtube

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as men? In my mind that’s mad

Fixed it for you.

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women?

No, I really don't. All the ones I have met I perceive as men and as men aren't women I don't see them as women,

I'm not going to make myself pretend a man is a woman.

We either have mixed sex spaces or single sex spaces. How a person identifies or what is in their head makes no difference to that
If males are included in the category woman then the meaning of the word has changed

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women? In my mind that’s mad, these are people have felt like they are in the wrong body almost their entire lives, and finally feel at peace once they have transitioned.

I think you will find that saying or implying that trans people all suffer from gender dysphoria (born in wrong body ) is actually considered transphobic.
Many trans people say they are quite happy with their bodies and only " transition" psychologically. What do you mean by transition?

"Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women?"

@Jizzle lots of informative resources on this thread to explain why most here don't believe humans can change sex

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Ah, I wondered when we'd get 'it'll never happen'. Link for you - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

And no, transwomen are not women. Transwomen are transwomen. The posters on here are concerned (with very good reason) of the erosion of single sex spaces, the eradication of sex based language and the silencing of women when raising concerns through the chilling effect. I was going to link the Break It Down for Me thread but see Goodie has done it already.

@Jizzle

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women? In my mind that’s mad, these are people have felt like they are in the wrong body almost their entire lives, and finally feel at peace once they have transitioned.

Could one bad person attack you, sure, but they could do that anywhere. I think people have built up this fear in their heads that some blocks with a beard is going to walk in and it simply isn’t going to happen.

For me, the risk of alienating these woman who finally get to be who they have always been is far more dangerous than the risk posed by a rogue man

Yes, I think I can be confident enough to state that most women on here don’t see trans women are women. Trans women are trans women, trans men are trans men. It’s really that simple hth.

@Jizzle

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women? In my mind that’s mad, these are people have felt like they are in the wrong body almost their entire lives, and finally feel at peace once they have transitioned.

Could one bad person attack you, sure, but they could do that anywhere. I think people have built up this fear in their heads that some blocks with a beard is going to walk in and it simply isn’t going to happen.

For me, the risk of alienating these woman who finally get to be who they have always been is far more dangerous than the risk posed by a rogue man

IMO there is a difference between a male person who has been affected by gender dysphoria and has gone through medical and surgical treatment. (I have known 3 individuals in that category, 2 professionally and 1 personally) and individuals who self identify as women (around 85%) who have no hormone treatment or surgery but limit themselves to wearing stereotypical clothing/wig/makeup, sometimes on a part time basis. These individuals are very keen to gain access to women's spaces such as toilets, changing rooms, refuges. They want free access to lesbian dating sites and become furious when lesbians (the female sort) won't have sex with them. The latter group make me feel unsafe and uncomfortable. This group was not mentioned in the programme. The student selling video sex made me feel very sad. The men on the golf course annoyed me.

I don't think trans women are women, no.

The whole programme was a complete mess. I feel quite insulted by it. That lawyer was a total prat. The reaction to Dr Jessica Taylor's bit was interesting. They seemed to grasp the dynamics of coercive control but then can't recognise the manipulation of TWAW, be kind narrative.

Oh god, yes, the lawyer. He was awful. I missed the first 20 minutes of the programme. I won't bother re-watching.

Jizzle- No, females are women. Your post come across as disingenuous trans activism.