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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Harrop MPTS Thread 3

1000 replies

BoreOfWhabylon · 25/11/2021 11:16

For when the last one fills up

OP posts:
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18
BoreOfWhabylon · 29/11/2021 17:16

@BorgQueen

Fair enough.
Smile
OP posts:
Lovelyricepudding · 29/11/2021 17:19

[quote Personwithrage]@Lovelyricepudding, no, it wasn't meant to be! I'm a bit new to it and don't really '"get it" - completely genuine ignorance Grin[/quote]
Twitter ban women for stating facts like you cannot change sex, or transmembrane are men. But are quite happy to let all sorts of violent threats and imagery towards women remain. It is a very misogynistic platform.

Lovelyricepudding · 29/11/2021 17:20

Transmembrane? My phone really doesn't like me talking about transwomen!

FOJN · 29/11/2021 17:26

I am always sceptical when someone who has no history in the feminism threads and little MN history makes a provocative post.

Bunbury endorses this message.

I'd also echo the concerns about the toxicity of some of those involved, if the tribunal imposes a sanction which leaves AH with nothing to lose then things could get very nasty indeed.

JustcameoutGC · 29/11/2021 17:28

He is a total gobshite. Am i allowed to say that now it has been confirmed legally, like?

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 29/11/2021 17:28

@FOJN

I am always sceptical when someone who has no history in the feminism threads and little MN history makes a provocative post.

Bunbury endorses this message.

I'd also echo the concerns about the toxicity of some of those involved, if the tribunal imposes a sanction which leaves AH with nothing to lose then things could get very nasty indeed.

I've seen the Bunbury reference many times. The one time I asked for clarification I was basically told to piss off.

May I please ask you to clarify the reference? Thank you.

Effzeh · 29/11/2021 17:33

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

I've seen the Bunbury reference many times. The one time I asked for clarification I was basically told to piss off.

May I please ask you to clarify the reference? Thank you.

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bunbury

nauticant · 29/11/2021 17:33

Bunbury is taken from Oscar Wilde's The Importance of Being Earnest where they are a fictional friend who can be deployed when an excuse to avoid a complete nuisance is needed, and is used in FWR to signify a mythical figure who is a font of common sense and wisdom to navigate the very tricky subject of the gender identity ideology.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 29/11/2021 17:34

Bunbury: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3438714-Bunbury-s-Public-Service-Announcement-2

Tomorrow may well be interesting when the panel reconvenes in public, if I understand today correctly.

Notahandmaid · 29/11/2021 17:35

@Glintwithpersperation

I don’t want him struck off, I want him signed up to an anti misogynistic ‘Prevent’ and, similar to violent domestic abusers, weekly counselling to explore his hatred of women / behaviour for as long as it takes (at least 1 year). All at his own expense. Any signs of anti terf spray badges / vile comments / mixing with his woman hating pals and he goes straight back to the beginning again.
Sadly I think that no course/counselling will have an impact on him. Some people are beyond help.

How horrible it must be to be him, hating half the human race so much.

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 29/11/2021 17:36

Thank you, everyone who answered!

Personwithrage · 29/11/2021 17:43

I know I'm slow and behind the times. But I just can't understand how much lenience there is for posts of such vitriol and menace on Twitter.

It's really shocking for the uninitiated (and so very much from one side).

Personwithrage · 29/11/2021 17:44

So, the MPTS will end the tribunal tomorrow? Is that right?

UncleTonyinahotpinkbrandbeanie · 29/11/2021 17:44

Re the squirrel, I dunno why anyone is believing the word of a golfer who doesn’t exactly have a sterling track record when it comes to honesty.

Enough said.

Motorina · 29/11/2021 18:12

@personwithrage that's correct - we're anticipating the final decision of this tribunal tomorrow.

If that is for conditions or a suspension, then they are entitled to require it to be reviewed, in which case there will be a future hearing a month or so before the end of the period of conditions or suspension.

Motorina · 29/11/2021 18:15

Actually, I saw it's the final decision. That's not quite correct.

If htey impose conditions or suspend, that doesn't kick in until either 28 days have passed, or until the end of any appeal if there is one.

The panel will have to decide whether to impose an immediate order. If they do, the immediate order kicks in straight away and covers that 28 days or appeal period.

That's normally a pretty quick decision to make.

PronounssheRa · 29/11/2021 18:25

The determination is a good read which reveals an arrogance in Harrop where he failed to heed advice and warnings regarding his twitter behaviour several times. Seems the vice article was the final nail in the coffin. Good work Ben, bravo.

Cuck00soup · 29/11/2021 18:48

I'm pleased and relieved that women have been heard and believed. Incredibly, this was not a given at the start of this process and I am grateful that the MPTS procedure has led to this determination.

And while I'm handing out plaudits, thanks to Ben Hunte for his sterling work. Wink

Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 29/11/2021 18:54

What were Hunte and Harrop thinking with that Vice article? I don't get it?!

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 29/11/2021 18:55

@Flixon

he will be erased from the medical register. In my mind there is no doubt
It's 99% certain that he won't.

Im not aware that any doctor has been erased from the register (= permanently struck off) for a first offence, unless convicted of a serious crime or found to have harmed patients. Not only that, but the GMC aren't even asking for erasure. As @Motorina has already said, it's theoretically possible for the Panel to impose a harsher outcome than the GMC want, but it's very rare.

Gncq · 29/11/2021 19:00

He might be suspended but not struck off

Datun · 29/11/2021 19:16

Personally, I think the best possible outcome is suspension. That means he is still under scrutiny, he has to behave himself, and he can't just spout off misogyny with impunity.

Also, hopefully, he has to make his mates behave, unless they want to risk implicating him.

He's already been proven to be 'impaired'. What he has said and done is completely unacceptable, according to the panel.

It sends a message.

About time.

Motorina · 29/11/2021 19:16

I agree with @MissLucyEyelesbarrow

It's not just that the GMC aren't askign for it. It's that each decision feeds into the next. The panel will clearly listen closely to all the submissions, but equally by now they will have a pretty shrewd idea of the likely destination.

In the impairment decision they clearly say that the conduct is remediable. That insight - albeit currently inadequate insight - is developing. How it's written is pointing towards a sanction which allows the Doctor the opportunity to remediate and to return to practice.

Whether he takes that opportunity is clearly in his hands.

The rules are that the panel aren't there to punish. Their job is to protect patients, to promote and maintain proper standards, and to maintain the reputation of the profession. They are required to impose the least restrictive sanction that does all those things. They aren't allowed to erase if suspension is good enough.

If you asked me to write a theoretical determination with an erasure outcome then I could. I would be saying things like, "The panel considers that behavioural failings are very difficult to remedy and may reveal a deep seated attitudinal problem which is fundamentally incompatible with being in the profession. The panel were particularly concerned with the Vice article, which revealed an overwhelming lack of insight into the seriousness of your conduct and contempt for the role of the regulator." That would be pushing towards a conclusion that only erasure would do.

They haven't written that way.

Bottom line is they wouldn't have written the impairment decision in the way they have if they thought erasure was the inevitable outcome. Sure, something might have come up at stage 3 which then led that way (part of the art of writing these things is not boxing yourself into a cover) but it doesn't see to be like it has. So I just can't see that that outcome is in any way likely.

ArabellaScott · 29/11/2021 19:19

@Datun

Personally, I think the best possible outcome is suspension. That means he is still under scrutiny, he has to behave himself, and he can't just spout off misogyny with impunity.

Also, hopefully, he has to make his mates behave, unless they want to risk implicating him.

He's already been proven to be 'impaired'. What he has said and done is completely unacceptable, according to the panel.

It sends a message.

About time.

Agree. Who knows, he might even be motivated to try and learn a bit about sexism, misogyny and supporting women.
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 29/11/2021 19:26

I wouldn’t want him to be struck off either.
We are desperately short of GPS. People are waiting weeks for appointment, in pain or in situations where the eventual likely outcome is worse if treatment isn’t prompt. Even knowing what we all know about him I would still take an appointment with him over a 2 week wait for most conditions.
He has the ability and the training to help a lot of people just by doing his normal job without fanfare and without pissing about trying to be a media star.
I am a cynic and I don’t think he will ever stop being a misogynist but if he can just stfu and stop harassing people on Twitter and act professionally around everyone else we are better with him back after a suspension than wasting all that training.

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