Harrop MPTS Thread 3

[BoreOfWhabylon]

For when the last one fills up

#MeToo seems appropriate here 👍

I agree with your analysis Bread

As do I

🤞🏼

@FlyingOink

Presumably if Brownlow wanted to keep him on as an unqualified healthcare worker they could, that other case showed the suspended doctor working in a covid testing centre. Or maybe Webberley has an admin role for him?

Assuming there's a suspension of course

This is speculation - I know nothing about his employers. However, as an employer of GPs myself, I doubt that they are looking for ways to keep him on, should he be suspended from the GMC register. He has already generate a huge amount of hassle and negative publicity (because of his association with them, not because they have done anything wrong) for them. I bet there have been endless meetings with the Deanery, HEE, and HR advisors - the last thing that any GP practice needs at the moment. If he were my employee, I would be kissing the ground, Pope-style, if someone handed me the perfect justification to dismiss him.

Thank you @Motorina for taking the time with such a detailed response (especially the in camera/in private info - I really like learning new things!) I am very grateful to you for your reply.

I do take the point of "trial by media" and absolutely agree it's right that judges/juries/panels etc disregard any Daily Mail "I live next door and once he looked at me funny" articles that appear throughout the course of a trial/tribunal/hearing etc.

I do hope though, that the Vice article is factored as evidence as a later date - this was AH own words, not a third party. I think, apart from his total disdain for witnesses and the whole hearing process, the main thing that frustrated (or infuriated!) me about the article was the total fucking hypocrisy.

All the "yes I have learnt my lessons, yes I have insight, no I won't do it again" to the panel
and then you see that article! It literally makes a mockery of the process.

Thinking about it a bit more, I think it infuriates me so much (and this was touched on on previous threads I think, I was on them but slight name change) because I absolutely hate hearing men glibly say "I've changed, I won't do it again. I'm really sorry, I've learnt my lesson" . They haven't changed, they haven't learnt a lesson and they will do it again. It's just rank hypocrisy and saying what they think people want to hear. It's meaningless.

I think it's one of the the most important things I have taught my DDs. Not to believe meaningless words and platitudes, but to look at behaviour, especially once someone has demonstrated who they are and you didn't like it. Look for their actions, not their words. My DDs are older now and take no shit and I'm really proud of them for it.

I'm aware I may be projecting my
experiences here, but a lot of women learn this the hard way (trusting words, not actions) and it's so important we recognise and disregard meaningless platitudes.

And then to see a health professional, a doctor, using this tactic - it's actually quite revolting.

Wise women see it for what it is, and I'm sure the panel will too if it's factored in.

@WeBuiltCisCityOnRabbitHoles you've very welcome.

Totally agree on your comments on "really really sorry, learned my lesson."

Remember in this case, he brought his boss along and the conversation was basically:

Q. So, he's really learned his lesson?
A. Yup, totally absolutley.
Q. How do you know this?
A. We had a couple of meetings.
Q Did you talk specifics?
A. Nope
Q. Did he mention this thing we think is important?
A. Nope
Q What about that thing?
A. Nope
Q. Or the other thing?
A. Nope. But he's very very sorry, and has totally learned his lesson.

It's not an, uhhh, ringing endorsement.

I am hopeful that the panel will assess his remorse in light of his wider actions.

However, even if the outcome of this panel doesn't go as far as some of us would wish there are proven allegations and he has made admissions about his behaviour. That is all a matter of public record. He will have nowhere to hide if he persists in this behaviour now. Any repeat offending on social media will be assessed in the light of this tribunal hearing. AH has no excuse if he repeats this behaviour and ends up back in front of the MPTS at a later date.

[quote Motorina]@WeBuiltCisCityOnRabbitHoles you've very welcome.

Totally agree on your comments on "really really sorry, learned my lesson."

Remember in this case, he brought his boss along and the conversation was basically:

Q. So, he's really learned his lesson?
A. Yup, totally absolutley.
Q. How do you know this?
A. We had a couple of meetings.
Q Did you talk specifics?
A. Nope
Q. Did he mention this thing we think is important?
A. Nope
Q What about that thing?
A. Nope
Q. Or the other thing?
A. Nope. But he's very very sorry, and has totally learned his lesson.

It's not an, uhhh, ringing endorsement.[/quote]
Brilliantly put.

Roll on Monday afternoon.

I do take the point of "trial by media" and absolutely agree it's right that judges/juries/panels etc disregard any Daily Mail "I live next door and once he looked at me funny" articles that appear throughout the course of a trial/tribunal/hearing etc.

There hasn't been any of this sort of coverage though. The Mail ran one article on the day the Tribunal opened, just stating the facts.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10204933/NHS-GP-used-Twitter-account-intimidate-social-media-rivals-opposed-pro-transgender-views.html

Then there was the Vice one and one in the Metro
www.metroweekly.com/2021/11/gay-british-doctor-could-lose-job-over-pro-trans-tweets/

Wait until the Tribunal concludes. I'm sure The Mail at least will have plenty more to say.

To clarify - the Metro one is Metro Weekly: For 26 years, Metro Weekly has brought you award-winning, diverse coverage of LGBTQ news, culture, and entertainment.

Not Metro, the newspaper handed out to commuters.

Ah! Of course

Julie Bindel has had several articles published in the Mail/MOS. Indeed, she has one today about male bodies in women's refuges.

Julie was also, iirc, accused by Harrop of trafficking innocent young lesbians. That might make a good article, whatever the outcome of the tribunal.

[quote Motorina]@WeBuiltCisCityOnRabbitHoles you've very welcome.

Totally agree on your comments on "really really sorry, learned my lesson."

Remember in this case, he brought his boss along and the conversation was basically:

Q. So, he's really learned his lesson?
A. Yup, totally absolutley.
Q. How do you know this?
A. We had a couple of meetings.
Q Did you talk specifics?
A. Nope
Q. Did he mention this thing we think is important?
A. Nope
Q What about that thing?
A. Nope
Q. Or the other thing?
A. Nope. But he's very very sorry, and has totally learned his lesson.

It's not an, uhhh, ringing endorsement.[/quote]

Absolutely!

And amongst the intimidation, misogyny, bringing the profession into disrepute etc, what does he feel was the worst aspect of all his actions/behaviour towards women?

"The most foolish thing I did was to allow myself to get too drawn into a lot of fragile and vulnerable people arguing with each other."

And what lesson has he finally come out with?

"I am going to take a step back from Twitter for the foreseeable future, for the sake of my safety & sanity. I hope that I can just be left in peace".

Me me me me me. It's all about me.

I was just looking at that Metro article thinking it’s a bit one sided (eg that Haddock was just pushing back against misinformation and transphobia ) but Alphonso’s explanation has cleared that up for me.

The metro is very very pride (extenders version). Has been solidly pro trans for a long time now (DS when little - they used to have the paper in the class in the morning - one day in the way to school ‘mummy... were you always a girl?’ What 8 year old asks that?)

It’s Washington DC based isn’t it?

@Ekofisk

It’s Washington DC based isn’t it?

Yes, it is.

METRO WEEKLY
Washington's LGBTQ Magazine
P.O. Box 11559
Washington, DC 20008
(202) 638-6830
About Us page

It actually says that? 🙄

That Metro piece is quite worrying. It’s factually incorrect and an attempt to stir up animosity towards those who reported Harrop.

It’s the metro. I don’t believe that most people who pick it up on the tube can’t see the bias (they can’t mention anything about women or show any group of women/ask women’s opinion without the usual range of well known trans women front and centre).

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

To clarify - the Metro one is Metro Weekly: For 26 years, Metro Weekly has brought you award-winning, diverse coverage of LGBTQ news, culture, and entertainment.

Not Metro, the newspaper handed out to commuters.

Not that Metro, KittenKong

Ahhhhh - different one! Easy mistake to make...

@UncleTonyinahotpinkbrandbeanie

That Metro piece is quite worrying. It’s factually incorrect and an attempt to stir up animosity towards those who reported Harrop.

I'm not worried.

In fact I think articles like this and Vice are potentially more damaging to AH.

If he is suspended and we see a run of pro-AH news copy that presents a narrative of organised conspiracy and a brave maligned trans activist what do you think the impact will be?

On the panel, nothing. It won't change the outcome of the tribunal.

But it might influence the next one if (as with Vice) he contributes directly and makes some additional foolish comments, which could be used in evidence against him when he asks for his licence to be reinstated.

But to AH, even if he doesn't engage with the press all they'll likely do is vindicate his own position/belief. It's here, in the paper that I was right.....and look at all the supporting comments from the Pink News/Vice readership.

That's not exactly going to help him on journey of reflection is it?

Essentially if this journey of reflection/remote/insight is by rail from Liverpool to London he's not even set foot in Lime Street Station yet, never mind boarded the train.

He's just waving his discounted E-ticket at the panel that he bought in 5 mins online between Instagram posts.

Combine that with being surrounded by friends, who instead of telling you to keep your head down are encouraging you to be photographed on SM with dodgy badges/doing interviews and think AH's path to rehabilitation, if suspended could be very challenging indeed.

Combine that with being surrounded by friends, who instead of telling you to keep your head down are encouraging you to be photographed on SM with dodgy badges/doing interviews and think AH's path to rehabilitation, if suspended could be very challenging indeed.

With friends like that, who needs enemies?