TT Exulansic Youtube

[Fleek]

I've been watching TT Exulansic's videos on YouTube having seen a link to them on here. I have learnt so much - what she is sharing is so necessary in terms of this debate. I'm also finding them really upsetting. I'm so shocked by what I've seen and just wanted to talk about them here. If you haven't watched any yet, please do.

I have a condition which has meant having plastic surgery to make my body look more 'normal'. I've had multiple, very painful surgeries which have left me in a degree of chronic pain but ultimately, I have achieved my goal in that I now have a much more normal looking body which it is easier to go through life with. These surgeries have had a clear medical benefit beyond my appearance being changed, just to be clear. I have a medical condition which has objective markers. There is evidence having gone through these surgeries, I will now have better physical health in my old age and will be less likely to experience certain complications which the condition can end up causing so the benefits definitely aren't just cosmetic - it's just the cosmetic benefits meant a lot to me as a patient. My body was 'wrong' and that was badly affecting my mental health and so I've put myself through a lot to make it look 'right.'

So there I am with having gone through this journey and so I think watching these videos on YT feels that little bit more personal in some ways, even though I don't have gender dysphoria and my surgeries were completely different. I knew already that things like constructing a 'penis' out of someone's arm was utterly barbaric and had a high failure rate and I knew there could be complications with attempting to construct a vagina. I just had no idea how frequently there were complications and how dangerous this journey is. I suddenly have the view that it must be almost impossible to go through them safely - at the very least you are risking fissures and strictures and those can lead to serious complications. Just taking testosterone is likely to lead to heart damage, too. There are going to be so many people who go through these operations and who die prematurely because they end up with sepsis or other infections.

I just watched the latest video on Jazz. I felt sick to my stomach at that one in particular. How has this poor kid got any kind of future? Jazz is severely depressed, 150 pounds overweight, has no sexual functioning at all, has already experienced multiple surgeries and complications and is likely to experience more. It's a crime to be doing this to vulnerable young people. If Jazz hadn't had these surgeries, we'd be looking at a young man embarking on a degree at Harvard, perhaps at the beginning of a journey where he felt comfortable with his sex and his sexuality. He'd be out having fun. My surgeries were so incredibly tough but on balance, they were worth it and while I'm in pain here and there, I don't have any additional complications which will actually threaten my life. That isn't the case with trans surgeries. Surgeons are literally butchering healthy bodies. They must know they are. How have things been allowed to go in this direction? (I know the answer to that really)

I don't understand any of it tbh; EX was on BB not so long ago herself

@WarriorN

I don't understand any of it tbh; EX was on BB not so long ago herself

That's basically where I am. I feel like there's a whole world of youtube politics out there that I never knew existed.

I've never seen BB as a feminist or on GC sides; he just offers good interviews with a really wide range of people.

Speaking of good interviewers, "whose body is it anyway" is amazing. She was a Doula who was completely immersed in TRA speak until she realised how fucked up it was.

I was wondering how this came about. I saw the comments and they seemed bizarre and I never got round to watching the you tube piece. I will check out KD.

Will keep circulating the Differently Normal piece.

Much I read about transsexualism before the GRA went through parliament was painting it as a variation of intersex and I have seen a Lord stand up in parliament and say that because he had hypospadias that he understood transgender. There is so much misinformation and blurring and obfuscation of facts. The muddling of terms like intersex and dsd, transsexual and transgender and sex and gender then sticking them all in a muddled pot together is quite a theme.

I watched a video of Ex's on the other channel that's not youtube this morning. She was talking more about DSDs.

She's hardline, for sure, I can absolutely see that is upsetting, I have a close family member who has a DSD (not CAIS) and yes, she would not be seen as male by anyone.

I can see that the wording has been, at best clumsy, but she wasn't making the video for newly diagnosed teens.

DSD is the end point of a political situation that the TRAs created when they said that males can be women - it is that legal fiction which meant that males could compete in our sports. That led to "what about Caster. Would you ban her?". That led to "what about people with DSDs who are not athletes? Are you going to exclude them from toilets?" And now we've got a woman with a large following making a hard line point, from stuff she's gleaned from books and lacks the nuance (or old fashioned tact) that someone with personal or clinical experience would be able to add.

I totally see why the DSD community are upset - but I don't think that Exulansic is the problem. I think the "I" is not an identity and people's conditions should not be used for gain by Stonewall et al.

Why have the DSD communities been unable to stop the misinformation that the TRA communities spout? Is it just sheer numbers, that they have the funding, they control the narrative?

The thing that has caught my attention in this furore is just how unaccountable the TRAs are. They can say and do what they like and other people feel the consequences.

It's a fucking mess.

I think the "I" is not an identity and people's conditions should not be used for gain by Stonewall et al.
Yes.

I think the reality is that dsds are so rare they've not been able to challenge the I popping up left right and centre. it looks like there so much public confusion, funding has been redirected to lgbtqi charities that would otherwise go to specific charities? From what ClareCAIS writes. (Is that right Clare?)

Also Claire Graham in that interview describes how TRAs infiltrate groups for people with dsd. And talk about health issues and pretend periods.

@ClareCAIS I didn't say helpful. I said, "nothing like as heinous" and "I haven't seen anything which would come close to being "clearly sexual harassment"". That's a long way from thinking she's helpful!

(I also said "almost unwatchable").

I've made the point before that, overall, I think Exulansic suffers from cramming too many facts without having the clinical experience to put them into context. I've just finished the Claire Graham video, which I thought was superb. Really helpful, clear, and empathic. She says somethign similar, and I'm paraphrasing, about people who think they understand because they can google scientific papers. @vivariumvivariumsvivaria makes a similar point above. It's a significant criticism.

I guess all I'm saying is I haven't seen anything which I think is bad enough to get her banned from youtube, which is in general a platform with a lot of really not great content on it. That's a long way from thinking she's helpful!

I think certain men are trying to use this issue to pretend to be something they are not.

On what occurred about TT being attacked and removed (apparently by a bunch of bros), Cluniac does a short step by step on youtube. Again it does appear it was about TT's critical analysis of the individual who had (does?) claimed they had CAIS, despite that being contradictory to what they have revealed in the past under another name. Then another bro, did a job where they commissioned what TT saw as a racist caricature of her. They even added credits claiming some connection to a list of names as if they had give some sort of imprimatur. I think the people on that list, when asked, said they had not given that person any expert opinion whatsoever.

The bro on whose channel the (now highly dubious) interview occurred contacted TT to say she needed to back down, or else she'd be removed from youtube. According to TT, that is. Good to see patriarchy in action. Goodness, it appeared for a minute there that men might be much reduced to equality with women.

In my opinion these guys are disingenuous. I wouldn't trust them, or their motives, as far as I could throw them.

@Motorina in general a platform with a lot of really not great content on it

Yes, I really miss the days of proper journalism. People who were able to present a story with balance, evidence and style.

The plethora of channels and blogs of people with little education, no insight and TERRIBLE GRAMMAR is problematic. Add audiences who lack critical thinking, are keen to elevate people onto pedestals and money into the mix and it's as far from careful journalism as you can get.

I think Ex did some good work. I found her insightful at times, and I also think that as her platform grew and her ego was fed by the fans and comments and money she developed a bit of hubris.

The fundamental problem is she reached out of her clinical scope of practice while relying on the credibility her qualifications gave her.

Looking at this thread, the dispute seems to go somewhat along these lines:

"Exulansic said A which I don't see as being so bad."

"But to say B is terrible!"

"What's so terrible about saying A?"

"By saying B, Exulansic was doing harm to community C."

The reason why this thread is so frustrating to read is that people are talking past each other, and some of it isn't accidental. It's why for days whenever I've been tempted to post something I've started to type and then have given up.

Here's a video looking into some of what Exulansic said:

That focuses on areas where she looks to be on firm ground. (Although it does depend on whether a particular individual did write a book and then changed their name in the way described.) She said other things too which I think are much more open to criticism. By the way, I'm not a fan of hers.

[quote ClareCAIS]@lovelyweathertoday it seems to have become two sides of the same coin, with far too many people forgetting that there are real people caught in the middle of this debates[/quote]
I do have sympathy with your position, but on the one hand you have TRAs who don;t give a shit about women, trans people or people with DSDs, and on the other you have people standing up for women's rights, and feeling that fixed lines in the sand are needed. I do not think it is reasonable to expect women to be overly concerned by the lives of a tiny tiny tiny minority of intersex people when they have any and all women's rights to worry about as a priority. This is all on TRAs

@Motorina

I totally understand why you would feel so strongly about this. I cannot imagine how incredibly distressing it must be to have your whole world turned upside down in your teens. And to have that happen in today's schools, where it seems every other teenager is playing games with pronouns and using myths about intersex to support them, must be extraordinarily difficult to navigate. Please believe me when I say I'm not trying to downplay that at all.

However, if I've found the right video ("Dalea Rundblad's Motivated, Scientifically Inaccurate Propaganda") then as far as I can tell is it's Exulansic correcting mis-information. Yes, she's doing it in her characteristically ascerbic style. Yes, it's heavy on the science and light on the empathy (although there is some of the latter there). But it's nothing like as heinous as some of the posts on here would suggest.

Now, I haven't seen the comments on the original youtube video, of course. And it may be there's more content I've missed. I find Exulansics unscripted live feeds almost unwatchable, so don't. So it's possible there is more egregious content out there that I haven't seen.

But, on the basis of what I've seen, I don't think Exulansic is the problem. I think the problems are misinformation and the way DSDs have been exploited by TRAs to support their particular agenda.

I also have a rare genetic disorder. I learned about mine in my early twenties. It's likely to send me blind (career ending, for me), means I would be vanishingly unlikely to successfully carry a child to term, and is life-shortening. So I'm not entirely clueless about what it feels like to have a life-changing diagnosis dumped on you when it seems everyone else is healthy and happy. I know when I was newly diagnosed I couldn't watch any content with any discussion of sight impairment, or anything with a blind character in it; it was just too raw. Looking at other people's babies hurt, because I knew I wouldn't have one.

I'm not intending to conflate your experiences and mine. Mine wasn't identity changing, for one. And I received it in adulthood, which is clearly easier. Plus it isn't something which is subject to prurient interest or used in political debate. I know it's different.

But I do wonder if - in the same way I found any mention of anything related so distressing - you are in part responding to Exulansic's content through the lens of your own distress? Because, at least on what I've seen, which I know isn't everything, I haven't seen anything which would come close to being "clearly sexual harassment", as IntersexTruther said upthread, or would justify her channel being taken down.

If I've missed it then please point me towards it. I am very open to having my mind changed. But that's where I am now.

I nearly typed a post last night that was going to try to make some of these points (but lacking your personal experience). Glad I didn;t and left it to you to post this!

@ClareCAIS

Two sides of the same coin - & caught between the extremes of Exulansic & the extremes of TRA, with very little thought to the real people at the heart of this

To be honest, I am shocked that anyone has found the videos helpful as mostly seem to be the targeted harassment of people with complex medical & mental health histories. There are ways to present complex topics or highlight complex or even controversial topics, but this doesn’t really isn’t it & will likely result in ever more extreme positions

Sorry, but TRAs do not give a shit about people with DSDs, other than to use them to further the trans agenda. People like Exulansic are fighting for women's rights and scientific truth. That is a massive remit and it is not Exulansic's job to provide a safe space for people with DSDs.

I do think people need to try to be kind and choose their words carefully, but I also think that there is a time in debate and campaigning for cold hard truth and the truth sometimes hurts.

Personally I am of the view that sex is binary and everyone is a man or a woman and if they are women they get women's rights. End of (with the exception of sport, and possibly some other places where some women with DSDs who have significant male traits should not be allowed in women's sport.).

Whilst GC people are fighting for that it is perfectly fine for trans people, and people with DSDs, to campaign for specific rights and exceptions to the very simple GC fight for women's binary rights.

It would be very helpful if a law was passed to make it clear that LGB and T and I are all completely different issues and anyone who confuses them should face 30 years in prison.

[quote vivariumvivariumsvivaria]**@Motorina* in general a platform with a lot of really not great content on it*

Yes, I really miss the days of proper journalism. People who were able to present a story with balance, evidence and style.

The plethora of channels and blogs of people with little education, no insight and TERRIBLE GRAMMAR is problematic. Add audiences who lack critical thinking, are keen to elevate people onto pedestals and money into the mix and it's as far from careful journalism as you can get.

I think Ex did some good work. I found her insightful at times, and I also think that as her platform grew and her ego was fed by the fans and comments and money she developed a bit of hubris.

The fundamental problem is she reached out of her clinical scope of practice while relying on the credibility her qualifications gave her.[/quote]
i think that the fundamental problem is she failed to be absolutely perfect, and despite providing very good quality content some people will engage in a pile-on for her lack of perfection.

[quote ClareCAIS]@Cailleach1 I have no idea what any of your last post is referring to? Who is the bro & isn’t this just a load of unsubstantiated rumour & nonsense?[/quote]
Well, I wouldn't agree with you there Clare. Insofar as one can tell. The original interview (on which TT commented) seems to be highly dubious. Both with the content, and with the honesty and good faith of those involved. Also, the subsequent attack by another dude on that channel with the caricature (which TT perceived as having a racist edge) now also appears to be highly dubious. Both in content and good faith. Even those credits to various people has been refuted by the names involved. These haven't been removed by Youtube.

This is a thread about TT's youtube, and I am commenting on that and the recent events causing it's removal.

Thanks for that Nauticant.

Seems to be a number of different things potentially going on; ultimately no, I don't think she shouldn't have been banned. I also wonder if they also looked at her jazz stuff and this was used as the tipping point.

Fucking gender ideology.

[quote ClareCAIS]@NotMyGenderGoblin I am truly shocked that anyone would support Exulansic’s comments about CAIS, as they very much sound like the worst medical abuses that have happened to people born with DSD - & have put DSD care back years. This will only result in more people living in shame & isolation & terrified to ever tell anyone.[/quote]
I think it's just very confusing, as no one has quoted anything she's said and you've said it was mainly in the comments to a video that's been deleted. So I don't think people here are defending medical abuses - I just don't think anyone actually knows what's been said.

For that reason, I'm hopeful that not too much harm has been done to young people with DSDs. It seems unlikely that they will be exposed to these comments, since no one has managed to find them and the videos have been taken down.

I do think that Exulansic is way more likely to have been targeted by the Jennings' legal team than to have been taken down over comments on DSDs, whatever they were.