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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

TT Exulansic Youtube

455 replies

Fleek · 19/11/2021 14:58

I've been watching TT Exulansic's videos on YouTube having seen a link to them on here. I have learnt so much - what she is sharing is so necessary in terms of this debate. I'm also finding them really upsetting. I'm so shocked by what I've seen and just wanted to talk about them here. If you haven't watched any yet, please do.

I have a condition which has meant having plastic surgery to make my body look more 'normal'. I've had multiple, very painful surgeries which have left me in a degree of chronic pain but ultimately, I have achieved my goal in that I now have a much more normal looking body which it is easier to go through life with. These surgeries have had a clear medical benefit beyond my appearance being changed, just to be clear. I have a medical condition which has objective markers. There is evidence having gone through these surgeries, I will now have better physical health in my old age and will be less likely to experience certain complications which the condition can end up causing so the benefits definitely aren't just cosmetic - it's just the cosmetic benefits meant a lot to me as a patient. My body was 'wrong' and that was badly affecting my mental health and so I've put myself through a lot to make it look 'right.'

So there I am with having gone through this journey and so I think watching these videos on YT feels that little bit more personal in some ways, even though I don't have gender dysphoria and my surgeries were completely different. I knew already that things like constructing a 'penis' out of someone's arm was utterly barbaric and had a high failure rate and I knew there could be complications with attempting to construct a vagina. I just had no idea how frequently there were complications and how dangerous this journey is. I suddenly have the view that it must be almost impossible to go through them safely - at the very least you are risking fissures and strictures and those can lead to serious complications. Just taking testosterone is likely to lead to heart damage, too. There are going to be so many people who go through these operations and who die prematurely because they end up with sepsis or other infections.

I just watched the latest video on Jazz. I felt sick to my stomach at that one in particular. How has this poor kid got any kind of future? Jazz is severely depressed, 150 pounds overweight, has no sexual functioning at all, has already experienced multiple surgeries and complications and is likely to experience more. It's a crime to be doing this to vulnerable young people. If Jazz hadn't had these surgeries, we'd be looking at a young man embarking on a degree at Harvard, perhaps at the beginning of a journey where he felt comfortable with his sex and his sexuality. He'd be out having fun. My surgeries were so incredibly tough but on balance, they were worth it and while I'm in pain here and there, I don't have any additional complications which will actually threaten my life. That isn't the case with trans surgeries. Surgeons are literally butchering healthy bodies. They must know they are. How have things been allowed to go in this direction? (I know the answer to that really)

OP posts:
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LangClegsInSpace · 21/02/2022 01:41

[quote Cleopatracat]@LilithOfEden there are so many lies in your post about Genspect that I think you might be a TRA. Genspect only formed last summer, they have never had any association with Bailey or Blanchard, they do not work with children, and Genspect has never ever advocated for bottom surgery for children. If you go on the Genspect website you will see all this, so why are you lying? Genspect is clearly working to stop the medicalization of gender questioning children by raising the concerns of their parents genspect.org/what-genspect-has-done-our-50-achievements-so-far/[/quote]
Genspect do need to up their game re safeguarding.

WarriorN · 21/02/2022 07:24

⭐️ LangCleg, thank you for those excellent posts. I too have saved it.

RVN123 thank you also for your detailed research.

I hope ClareCAIS is ok and actually didn't read a number of posts that are now deleted. If you did, please know the vast majority feminists do not think like this.

I'm starting to think certain people on YouTube speak with over confidence and authority about things without seeing a bigger picture or having a clue about wider facts and details. We are naturally attracted to confident speakers. Their confidence also attracts a certain type of person who sees them as a god.

I could go off on an anthropological musing about how social media is replacing religion (it being the opium of the masses etc) but it's not the thread.

Signalbox · 21/02/2022 07:44

I hope ClareCAIS is ok and actually didn't read a number of posts that are now deleted. If you did, please know the vast majority feminists do not think like this.

I second this. Solidarity with Clare and any CAIS women reading this thread.

beastlyslumber · 21/02/2022 08:06

@LangClegsInSpace

We already have a working definition- it's legal sex. It has always encompassed people with DSD, they are all registered male or female.

It's incomprehensible to me that some people want to upend these rights that have been in place since records began but if they do, they will need to persuade their MPs to make new primary legislation.

Of course sports is different because that's to do with competitive advantage, not basic human rights.

Yes to all of this. I'm appalled by some of the comments I've seen here.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/02/2022 09:09

However I cannot quite believe that a site called 'Virtuous P**philes' actually openly exists. I would rather not google that term!

It's a "movement" to destigmatise paedophilia as a "sexual orientation" as long as not being acted on, had a bit of publicity about eight years ago when there was an article published in Salon magazine from the viewpoint of one of these men. There was even a MN thread about it.

https://www.thecut.com/2017/02/salon-shouldnt-have-unpublished-its-pedophilia-article.html

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/02/2022 09:11

I don't agree with Singal's take, but it links to an archived version of the Salon article if anyone wants to read it. Don't want to derail the thread but suffice to say I think it's a concerning movement.

Cleopatracat · 21/02/2022 09:18

@LangClegsInSpace how do Genspect need to up their game re safeguarding? What are they missing?

LilithOfEden · 21/02/2022 10:06

No, not a TRA @Cleopatracat. If I am, I'm shelling out all my spare cash every month to the wrong causes and cases. Which would make me a rather stupid one.

Genspect advises parents of, you know, kids - to help these children through their distress and dysphoria. It is a legitimate question to ask them where they are gathering their information from to help these parents, who in turn help their kids. A Wider Lens (no. 34 on that list of achievements) has featured Blanchard this month a "Pioneer", so it is a legitimate question to ask whether Genspect is informed/influenced by the work of someone who currently, publicly supports a pedophile network.

Yes, I know what the Genspect website says about bottom surgery/blockers, but Karen believes, for whatever reason, that there are situations where Genspect would. If that belief is wrong, then "No we don't" is a sufficient answer. As opposed to "why are you obsessed with children's genitals, you pedophile".

Claire Graham is on the team of Genspect. Whether that's paid or not, she's on their website as on their team, and has been the public face for them on a number of occasions. If she can't or won't answer questions posed to Genspect about their policies and affiliations, then all she needs to say is that she is not able to answer/refer to someone else or just block and not engage. Repeatedly attacking the questioner as a pedophile on social media is reprehensible, utterly immature, opens her up for a defamation claim and reflects really badly on Genspect's team choice. And yes, it does reflect badly on Genspect, whether you like it or not. Just like Monica Sulley's inclusion and conduct reflects badly on GirlGuides, when that person's got nothing to do with me or most other grass roots guide leaders. It's made me question my affiliation with GGUK and what on earth they were thinking engaging such a person, and frankly makes me ashamed to wear the uniform, given their unwillingness to engage with basic safeguarding concerns. As it should.

Karen, Exulansic etc are not sacred cows and should be held up to scrutiny when they are talking shit. A lot of their content in about petty grievances and I can't be bothered to get my head into it, but then, I could say the same for Boyce, Glinner, Morty, Helen S, Posie and all the rest of them who have running battles with people all over social media and like to share that with their followers. I admire them all for putting themselves out there publicly and doing the work the rest of us can't do/won't do/too afraid to do. Their tenacity - and frankly, not nicey nicey approach - in the face of public hostility, and making a big noise about this made the public, MPs, institutions, journalists sit up and listen. (The "let's have a polite and reasoned conversation" brigade have a real value, but they are not the ones who have brought about the change in the wind that was urgently needed). Without their contributions Stonewall would have completely taken over this county's institutions. For that, I will not de-platform any of them in my personal capacity to do so by switching them off. I am also very capable of disagreeing with them, questioning their stances on certain issues and rethinking my own opinions about them as their work unfolds. I'm an atheist, I don't believe in gods, and that includes the FWR posters who have been held up as such.

Organisations like Genspect are also not sacred cows, and the people who work for them/represent them are not sacred cows either. They should be held to a higher standard than any of the Karens, Exulansics or Glinners. Like any body seeking to be the official voice or advisor to a group of vulnerable people with serious medical and mental health needs, they need to be open to scrutiny and prepared to answer questions. Even if the questions are relentless, even if the information is on their website, even if the questioner is unpleasant. They have a presence of social media and that is the nature of that beast they have chosen to engage in. They say on their website "We represent 18 different organizations in 16 different countries. We’re not just speaking for a few. We speak for thousands." Your "never ever" claim would need to be very confident indeed to cover all the organisations and all the people affiliated with them. Are you?

You cannot possibly think that it is legitimate to hold bodies like Mermaids up to scrutiny if you are not prepared to do the same for the bodies and people that you support yourself. Sitting back on your 50 achievements laurels, thinking you don't need to answer fairly basic safeguarding questions, and one of your team going on the attack with the defamatory - and potentially career ending - claim that a female, black teacher asking safeguarding questions is a stupid, hard of reading, predatory pedophile is not the sort of behaviour I would expect from the people who are supposed to be the good faith players in all this.

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 21/02/2022 11:13

I hope ClareCAIS is ok and actually didn't read a number of posts that are now deleted. If you did, please know the vast majority feminists do not think like this.

Hear, hear.

Exulansic and co have clearly gone off the deep end.

Anyone insisting that there's only two sides - TRA vs. GC - and that people with DSDs (or anyone) needs to choose a side is off their rocker.

Cleopatracat · 21/02/2022 11:18

Karen Davis has shown herself to be a bad faith actor time and time again. Genspect has answered her question many times.
Karen has suggested in multiple videos that Genspect are aligned with the virtuous paedophile crowd. She make this leap of logic by musing that the Wider lens podcast (which Genspect supports) once interviewed Michael Bailey about autogynephilia. That it. There are no other even tenuous associations with Bailey; Bailey hasn't worked with Genspect, hasn't appeared on the website; nada.
I would like to point out that anyone who uses the term 'autogynephilia' has immediately associated themselves with Bailey and Blanchard. Whatever happened to don't shot the messenger? Bailey has been attacked for many years by TRAs as a result of his work on AGP. He has long been accused to be a paedophile by TRAs. Pictures of his children were posted online, back when they were young, by TRAs "asking questions" about his paedophilia. The TRAs did this to ruin him and it worked as Bailey's career very badly suffered as a result - as he outlined in this interview on the Wider Lens podcast.
Now Karen Davis is pretending that "it is a legitimate question to ask whether Genspect is informed/influenced by the work of someone who currently, publicly supports a pedophile network." Genspect has never worked with Michael Bailey or anybody else associated with a paedophile network. This is clear if you google it. So why is it a legitimate question?
This is a clear strategy to align Genspect with paedophilia in the algorithms.

Cleopatracat · 21/02/2022 11:18

Agh forgot to @LilithOfEden

Cailleach1 · 21/02/2022 11:53

So, a movement called 'Virtuous P's' does in fact exist. Ye Gods!

So are some people who were identified as part of the 'Team' of Genspect down as supporters of that movement? Even if they have been recently been removed because (and it looks terrible if it appear only because) outside actors have called this out and drawn attention to the inappropriateness of such a thing. Their apparent mission is focused on children/minors, isn't it?

You couldn't make it up really. If the allegations are true.

LilithOfEden · 21/02/2022 12:05

It's a bit more than support - it's one of the achievements you linked to: "Co-sponsored the popular podcast Gender: A Wider Lens, a deep dive into a psychological exploration of body, mind, identity, culture, and psyche through the lens of gender." And hosted by Genspect's Stella O'Malley. So yes, I am afraid that engaging in interviews with anyone on that podcast, especially sympathetic ones, will build a bridge between them and Genspect. And yes, it's legitimate to ask whether their work influences any Genspect policies or approaches when dealing with the task they have set themselves up to deal with, helping children.

Are you holding youtubers to the same standard as Genspect in terms of reputation, conduct, affiliation and good practice? If so, that's a low bar for Genspect. I notice you have completely ignored Genspect's Claire Graham's conduct. Your words about Bailey's experience could just as easily be words about KD's at the hands of CG.

Cleopatracat · 21/02/2022 13:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

LilithOfEden · 21/02/2022 14:00

Genspect are helping People With Children which by extension Helps Their Children. If their work doesn't by extension help their clients' children (directly or indirectly), then Genspect is a bit defunct, no?

No. I have no problem hearing about the work of Blanchard and co and have no wish to suppress it. Where did you get that from?

Do I have a problem with the work itself? Well Blanchard's method of relief for AGPs was to put them into women's spaces. And to blame women for the situation we are in now with AGPs pushing their agenda to take over women's spaces (if you saw his interview on The Mess, there was an astonishing bit of woman blaming from Blanchard in there). AGPs are at the very heart of the TRA movement. Frankly, I don't care about AGPs and their "struggles" and need for validation from women in women's spaces. Why would I? I do care about what they have been doing on a social, medical and legal footing to the rights of women, which is why I am GC.

AGP men and gender questioning children are two wholly separate groups and need to stay that way. That's the whole point of the GC movement. One is a paraphilia, mostly men, often privileged/married/fathers, defined as having "intense sexual arousal to atypical objects, situations, fantasies, behaviours, or individuals." The other is a group of children - increasingly girls - who may have dysphoria, may have a co morbidity like autism, may be confused about their sexuality, may have a distressing home life and looking for ways to take control of their lives or may simply be trying to fit in. Do I want the former group, research about the former group, sympathy for the former group or anything about the former group informing, influencing, tainting, damaging or otherwise have any effect on the latter group. No.

A Wider Lens is a good podcast, I've listened to many of them and recommend them on FWR. It's connection to Genspect means that what they discuss there opens Genspect to scrutiny. I want my side to be squeaky clean and not leaving any question marks over itself. This argument is so polarised there is no room for fuck ups, IMO. If you don't agree with my views, that's fine. GC is not a single hive mind. I'm more than happy with my GC credentials, your stated mistrust of my motivations is a fairly typical deflection tactic for not answering questions. If you think I'm a secret TRA, have a look at my posting history. My former name was "TedImgoingmad" . Knock yourself out. I've really got nothing more to say to you.

MangyInseam · 21/02/2022 14:14

@RVN123

I think the clear difference with CAIS is that they are registered as female from day 1 of life, they are socialised and brought up as female, they know nothing else than being female. They have female bodies to all intents and purposes. There is never any masculinisation that needs to be reversed or changed so that they "pass". It's not comparable to a trans woman in any way. Actually I think most people can see that. Not to mention the sheer numbers. Trans women accessing female services and spaces outweigh CAIS/DSD people more times than I can imagine.
I agree that for most people this makes complete intuitive sense, but that isn't enough at this point. It needs to be spelled out. This isn't unique to this issue, it's what happens whenever a universally accepted way of thinking is challenged by a contingent of society - it becomes necessary to become specific about defending the old viewpoint or to build a new one.

It's worth remembering that there are other cases, for example in sports, where there are competitors who were registered female at birth, were raised as girls, but are in fact male and ultimately develop in significant ways as male. How people are registered at birth isn't a clear fix that will always give the right outcome.

Cailleach1 · 21/02/2022 15:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn as it references a deleted post.

MondayYogurt · 21/02/2022 16:07

Can anyone access Cluniac's youtube channel? I was just watching and now it's gone.

nauticant · 21/02/2022 16:17

The channel is still there but now does not have any content.

WarriorN · 21/02/2022 17:07

Happened to see a tweet yesterday.

He wanted people to stop following and fawning over him on twitter and threatened to close it down if they didn't.

Thought he'd given a week but maybe he did it sooner.

WarriorN · 21/02/2022 17:10

Ah twitter also gone.

I was randomly chatting to him this morning. I hope he's ok

Cailleach1 · 22/02/2022 12:17

All his content seems to still be on odysee. Would his content have been removed by Youtube I wonder? Of course it is possible he removed his content himself.

billydilly · 22/02/2022 12:18

Isaac/Cluniac appears to have suffered another mental health crisis similar to his last. The guy suffers from BPD and is extremely fragile, I really hope he's ok

Cailleach1 · 22/02/2022 13:07

It is quite likely he may have received personal attacks for trying to examine the issues he did. I think there may be a call to raise a possee to complain about KD because she is asking awkward questions about safeguarding. Well, they appear to be awkward to answer. It could be a pre-emptive course of action on Cluniac's part; remove your presence before there is a coordinated attempt to have it removed.

Just speculation.

Cailleach1 · 22/02/2022 13:09

posse.