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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans professor is placed on leave after interview defending pedophiles

322 replies

PandorasMailbox · 17/11/2021 12:41

Oh dear, how very sad.

Don't let them back in!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10210713/Trans-professor-placed-leave-controversially-defending-pedophiles.html#comments

OP posts:
verymiddleaged · 17/11/2021 14:56

Thanks @HoardingSamphireSaurus I fell into it really.

It is the dc that pick themselves up and keep on going that are the truly strong ones.

But it is damaging work, I think in all honesty, I'm not the same person I would have been if I had done something else.
The way my life has worked out every five years or so I have ended up taking a break, which is great for a mental reset.

I am truly in support of these men seeking support for their impulses but this cannot be done at the expense of more children being sexually assaulted.

BloodinGutters · 17/11/2021 14:58

[quote Kanaloa]@BloodinGutters

My point was that if this academic had come forward with an idea of how to destigmatise so that people could seek help not to offend I could have understood, but as it is their entire thesis reads as advocating for open and legal child sexual abuse. I was suggesting that available help would help everyone. As it is most need to offend before there’s any help.[/quote]
There already is plenty help if anyone asks for it.

All therapy involves an unbiased and non judgemental approach.

But my point is all peadophiles will be offending, by using images of abuse for pornographic purposes, as preteens and young teens, already.

So they already are offending. Using ‘child porn’ is offending. And it’s real children on the other end of it, myself included.

I worked with children in residential care and secure units for decades, including some boys in for molesting children. All of these boys started using images of abuse long before they came to us (and the youngest I worked with was ten) and they had all molested children by the time they were removed into care. All of the forensic psychs and social workers all said the same thing, that the patterns of offending against children by using images of child abuse begins very very young.

So your hypothetical just doesn’t exist.

verymiddleaged · 17/11/2021 15:00

Also @HoardingSamphireSaurus is right there is and has been for some time support for men who wish to receive support around their sexual attraction to children.

Mainstream views would not support the view that providing access to images of children being sexually assaulted would be a helpful treatment for these men. Even if these images were completely fake.

Itsjustrenee · 17/11/2021 15:00

@Clymene he’s clearly forgetting that images of child pornography involves sexual abuse. He sounds like an absolute crackpot.

oakleaffy · 17/11/2021 15:07

“MAP”
Minor attracted persons..Why are they trying to soften paedophilia, by calling it by another name?
It’s grotesque to call themselves “Map”.

Revolting

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 17/11/2021 15:09

There is no science behind the idea that if you facilitate watching of child porn to satisfy your urge, then you are less likely to go on to offend. Most models of sexual offending talk about how you first overcome the psychological barriers (it's wrong, I shouldn't do this) then the physical barriers. They also look at how the things you do are reinforced by the effect you have - i.e. if you do something and you have an orgasm, you're more likely to do it.

So basically this professor wants to break down the psychological barriers for people and the get them more and more interested in child porn.

Even without looking at how you make child porn for them to watch in the first place, anyone who makes statements like this has no place in academia.

Pontificating on your own abuse and narrow world view is not something which should be paid for and not something which someone in a position of power should ever do.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 17/11/2021 15:09

Many sex abuse victims set up local charities.

I want to re-write that sentence. Sorry.

Many local charities set up to support pedophiles, and people who have thoughts of child sex abuse, are actually set up by victims of child sex abuse

IntermittentParps · 17/11/2021 15:12

BloodinGutters, on your reply to my post about 'Demonizing and stigmatising child sex abuse', a) I was just responding to someone else who introduced the subject and b) I don't believe that subject matter can or must only be posted on another board. If you think otherwise then you could report to MNHQ; I don't want to
break the guidelines and so I would defer to them.

On the trans discussion, thank you for your reply on trans people who welcome the map community.

Your tone is a little abrasive though. I have tried to make clear that I'm new to – and have admitted to being fairly ignorant of – much of the trans debate and the language around it, but I hoped it was also clear that my questions come out of genuine not-knowing and wishing to learn, rather than being provocative or vexatious, but I get the impression I irritate you nonetheless. I didn't intend to and don't want to.

But, again, thank you for replying on the questions I've asked.

blubbabubba · 17/11/2021 15:14

What an abomination. Who is going to design childlike sex dolls? Why The hell would this stop these people reoffending? Actually disgusting- and way beyond 'accepting/tolerance' (not that it should be anyway).

ParishSpinster · 17/11/2021 15:16

Not read full thread, sorry.

But from my understanding, viewing of images of child abuse (so called "child porn") doesn't de-escalate the risk of paedophiles from carry out acts of abuse and molestation but instead can escalate their likelihood.

Horrific.

Megan1992xx · 17/11/2021 15:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

blubbabubba · 17/11/2021 15:16

Visiting indecent images doesn't stop offending, this person is a maniac, and needs their own
hard drive checked

JellySaurus · 17/11/2021 15:25

Rebranding for clarity and emphasis.

MAP: Minor Attracted Paedophiles

PermanentTemporary · 17/11/2021 15:28

Thank you for your post @OnwardsAndSideways1 which is measured. It's very difficult to be measured about this and I'm going to read it, just wanted to direct people to your post.

Megan1992xx · 17/11/2021 15:29

@blubbabubba

Visiting indecent images doesn't stop offending, this person is a maniac, and needs their own hard drive checked
So true!
BloodinGutters · 17/11/2021 15:33

@IntermittentParps

BloodinGutters, on your reply to my post about 'Demonizing and stigmatising child sex abuse', a) I was just responding to someone else who introduced the subject and b) I don't believe that subject matter can or must only be posted on another board. If you think otherwise then you could report to MNHQ; I don't want to break the guidelines and so I would defer to them.

On the trans discussion, thank you for your reply on trans people who welcome the map community.

Your tone is a little abrasive though. I have tried to make clear that I'm new to – and have admitted to being fairly ignorant of – much of the trans debate and the language around it, but I hoped it was also clear that my questions come out of genuine not-knowing and wishing to learn, rather than being provocative or vexatious, but I get the impression I irritate you nonetheless. I didn't intend to and don't want to.

But, again, thank you for replying on the questions I've asked.

I haven’t typed the words deamonising or stigmatising so you must be confusing me.

Appealing to female socialisation to have a kind or nice tone isn’t going to wash on a feminism board.

I tend to be direct, which imho is a sign of respect. I’m not about to worry over some who read it otherwise.

blacksax · 17/11/2021 15:34

Christ almighty, what is the world coming to?

Just lock the fucking perverts up and throw away the key - that'll stop them.

supremelybaffled · 17/11/2021 15:36

@JellySaurus

Rebranding for clarity and emphasis.

MAP: Minor Attracted Paedophiles

^ This.
nauticant · 17/11/2021 15:38

In case it's not clear, Allyn Walker is a female person who identifies as queer, non-binary, and trans.

Wheresmywoolyjumpers · 17/11/2021 15:40

As others have said, research like this is hard to reduce to simple, news paper friendly statements. I want effective treatments to be developed for paedophiles because I want them to not abuse children. If that means medicalizing the issue or treating it as a disorder, what is wrong with that? I am not saying I agree with the suggestions - using images of sexual abuse of children in any therapy is just totally wrong and seems likely to keep actual abuse going as the demand for images continues.

BloodinGutters · 17/11/2021 15:47

Actually, I made this point on the other thread and want to repeat it here.

Speaking as a kid who was abused for images to be distributed - which I’ve learned the last few years were distributed much further/more than I had previously been aware of- there is ‘child porn’ that is images of abuse and should be referred to as such.

But there is also child pornography also. That doesn’t contain images of abuse.

Like ‘barely legal’ porn, or like adults dressed as children or child faces super imposed on adults bodies in porn or pictures of kids at the beach running about in underwear -that are entirely innocent and sweet and appropriate in the hands of decent parents, but used by peadophiles for pornographic reasons.

There’s a wide ‘middle ground’ that feeds peadophilia and propels them towards accessing images of abuse. Because this child porn that isn’t images of abuse manages to remove boundaries and sanitise the idea of child abuse. So they can access this without shame from stigma, and that provides the means to develop neural pathways that mean they need to seek out more extreme material to provide the same mental feedback or stimulation to satisfy their perversion. So it escalates to images of abuse. And then to hands on abuse of children.

The likes of map arguments about child porn tends to argue in favour of this child porn, with the excuse it doesn’t involve actual children. But it does lead to accessing actual images of child abuse.

I think it matters to use both definitions accurately so the pro map crowd can’t diminish the pro child porn argument by obfuscation of these terms.

Helleofabore · 17/11/2021 15:47

@blubbabubba

What an abomination. Who is going to design childlike sex dolls? Why The hell would this stop these people reoffending? Actually disgusting- and way beyond 'accepting/tolerance' (not that it should be anyway).
If I remember, there is already a lively trade in these dolls. I remember reading about cases of men importing them into Australia and being charged.
HoardingSamphireSaurus · 17/11/2021 15:48

Nothing. But that has been happening for decades.

It's the rebranding that is the not so new suggestion. That we have seen before. And it got quite far before someone with a loud voice said What the actual fuck is that? and everyone had as forced to see it for what it really was.

BloodinGutters · 17/11/2021 15:49

@Wheresmywoolyjumpers

As others have said, research like this is hard to reduce to simple, news paper friendly statements. I want effective treatments to be developed for paedophiles because I want them to not abuse children. If that means medicalizing the issue or treating it as a disorder, what is wrong with that? I am not saying I agree with the suggestions - using images of sexual abuse of children in any therapy is just totally wrong and seems likely to keep actual abuse going as the demand for images continues.
Because you can’t take away the stigma from peadophilia without removing the stigma from actually abusing children and without removing boundaries to accessing children to abuse or images of child abuse.
Wheresmywoolyjumpers · 17/11/2021 15:53

@Helleofabore - Stacey Dooley did a documentary about Japan where she looked at sexual practices and it seems they are legal there. As is Manga showing sexual abuse. The Manga producer kept arguing that it was only drawing and therefore not harming anyone. He completely would not engage with the idea that it may lead to other things.