Trans professor is placed on leave after interview defending pedophiles

[PandorasMailbox]

Oh dear, how very sad.

Don't let them back in!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10210713/Trans-professor-placed-leave-controversially-defending-pedophiles.html#comments

Helleofabore

Wheresmywoolyjumpers
“If there is a chance of stopping this, then we should throw research money at it.”

I agree.
But don’t agree to rebranding Americanese “MAP” or “Adults who commit sexual offences”
Queer speak, “no kink shaming” “all boundaries are artificial constructs” etc

Come to think of it I hate the euphemism “Adult” used say for television programmes that are basically porn too.

The lecturer has resigned.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10241745/Trans-professor-34-defended-pedophiles-Minor-Attracted-Persons-RESIGNS.html

I would not choose this hill, but as someone who is genuinely interested in academic freedom, I don't think this is a good outcome. They have effectively been forced out by outrage and threats leading to safety fears.

They said many things which I instinctively think are wrong (eg child dex dolls). But I also think their research has been misrepresented. The mail do not repeat the previous claim that this Prof has argued for giving paedophiles access to child exploitation videos. Thet have not argued for this. The daily mail stoked the outrage and misinformation there.

They say "I embarked on this research in hopes of gaining understanding of a group that, previously, has not been studied in order to identify ways to protect children."

I think it's very very naive to start breaking down the boundaries that we as a society have drawn around paedophilia, when there are so many characters who will want to take advantage of that. Research in this area should be very mindful of this context. But as I said before, the question of how to reduce sexual abuse of children is an empirical question. It should be done away from queer studies imo, but we get nowhere if the decision about what is researched and how (in any subject) is made by outrage mobs and ppl who would threaten violence based on some twisting and misinformation.

I hope that somewhere some very sensible, non ideological, empirically minded researchers are carefully picking their way through this subject.

I don't think that is a good outcome either Manderleyagain. Because it also means that the issue wasn't discussed on academic merit and that particular academic wasn't given the opportunity to re-evaluate their research with any new information etc.

And it is an area that actually needs all the scrutiny that we can give it.

No Bluberry. As normal you miss the point.

I believe it has been discussed on this thread. It is about the degree to which queer theory (you know... Foucault) is being accepted and taught in universities.

But you can misrepresent it. You usually do so crack on. It will just mean that links to queer theory and its origins and how it is adopted by a group to lower sexual boundaries will get posted which will mean more readers will make the connection.

Shall we start with how Foucault was part of the group responsible for having the age of consent for sex lowered in France. And the fall out that is only now, decades later being allowed to be discussed because so many of the supporters convinced by the group were in places of power.

Is that a good start?

Manderleyagain - I agree with you.

They said many things which I instinctively think are wrong (eg child dex dolls)

They never said this. I've read the thesis. The book is in my institution's library but I can't be bothered to read it.

But so many things that AW said in the literature review or simply reported as being what the interview subjects of the thesis said were attributed to AW as things they believed in and advocated for.

And yeah - I was a little 'huh' over the emphasis in all the reporting regarding AW's gender identity. I think it was bordering on transphobic and inviting readers to draw conclusions ...

@Helleofabore
I don't think that is a good outcome either @Manderleyagain. Because it also means that the issue wasn't discussed on academic merit and that particular academic wasn't given the opportunity to re-evaluate their research with any new information etc.

And it is an area that actually needs all the scrutiny that we can give it.“

I agree.

If only AW hadn’t used that awful term MAP though.

But so many things that AW said in the literature review or simply reported as being what the interview subjects of the thesis said were attributed to AW as things they believed in and advocated for.

That is very worrying. An academic should be able to cite and explore material without being treated as though they promote it.

@lunarlandscape

But so many things that AW said in the literature review or simply reported as being what the interview subjects of the thesis said were attributed to AW as things they believed in and advocated for.

That is very worrying. An academic should be able to cite and explore material without being treated as though they promote it.

Did you read it though?

It’s AW who was using the term MAP, promoting it. It was AW who wrote the dedication to all those trying to ‘accept themselves’ which considering the topic reads like support for ‘MAPs’.

The thing is that it would have been preferable to argue with AW against any elements like using the word MAP, or any insinuation or description that might convey the idea that being a paedophile is fine, without cancelling AW’s work altogether.

As for how to get paedophiles to stop offending ( including with child abuse porn), or how to I intervene at an early stage with those who might go on to offend, I personally have not the least knowledge about what might work -,but generally speaking shameful compulsions are not usually best dealt with by driving them underground where they grow bigger. It would be far better if potential and actual paedophiles felt they could get expert help, and other people in the community knew what to look out for to protect children.

generally speaking shameful compulsions are not usually best dealt with by driving them underground where they grow bigger
This short statement assumes:

All/most paedos feel shame
Mens sex drives are a compulsion
Or
Paedos sex drives are a compulsion
The current state of play drives them underground
Being underground makes the compulsion bigger

Whereas in fact we don't know any of these things to be true. It also suggests the current state of play makes paedophiles more likely to be overcome by their compulsion.

I don't even believe there is a compulsion.

@FlyingOink

generally speaking shameful compulsions are not usually best dealt with by driving them underground where they grow bigger This short statement assumes:

All/most paedos feel shame
Mens sex drives are a compulsion
Or
Paedos sex drives are a compulsion
The current state of play drives them underground
Being underground makes the compulsion bigger

Whereas in fact we don't know any of these things to be true. It also suggests the current state of play makes paedophiles more likely to be overcome by their compulsion.

I don't even believe there is a compulsion.

Agree.

In fact there’s some excellent posts upthread that explain how shame peadophiles feel (for those who feel it) acts to minimise risk to children. That over coming this shame is the first step any peadophile takes to justify their entitlement to prey on children. So removing the shame removes a barrier to offending, not a barrier to access help to prevent offending.

Some to be deliberately obtuse on this subject. I doubt they’d want to remove shame from a would be rapist accessing rape porn. Or not understand the very well documented escalation that accessing preferred pornography is linked to in predators.

I think they should be examining why they need to view peadophiles differently to other rapists.

As a victim of csa and images of child abuse it’s a repugnant attitude to find on this forum and not one I’ve seen here on similar threads. It’s definitely anti feminist, anti women and girls.

So removing the shame removes a barrier to offending, not a barrier to access help to prevent offending

Exactly. We're so quick as a society to believe that these poor widdle men are tortured by their compulsions and to feel sorry for them.

It's just a bloody fetish, basically. It's not a sexuality. Random man, want to stop being a paedophile? Stop watching children being abused and wanking to it. Fuck's sake.

We can't medicalise everything. Poor men caught stomping on kittens. Not their fault, they grew up watching kitten stomping videos, blah blah blah its just the same as being gay, that was stigmatised too, these men should be able to talk about kitten stomping blah blah

Just no.

RedCarpetRebellion
“As a victim of csa and images of child abuse it’s a repugnant attitude to find on this forum and not one I’ve seen here on similar threads. It’s definitely anti feminist, anti women and girls.“

I am very sorry indeed this happened to you.
It also happened to my sister with my own grandfather when she was very young and my best friend by a man who had access to us both when I was very young. I also experienced in appropriate incestuous approaches from a close male family member when I was barely a teen. I was leched over by a forty year old not long after.

This is why I do not want paedophiles in the world either. Meanwhile it is all too evident that they are among us in the hundreds or the child abuse porn factory would not be so well used and so many children abused. Children are easy prey for these depraved people.

Do you have an answer as to how to stop them?

I am well aware that porn will not help. AW did not say it would. They related previous opinions that had said it would.

@ScrollingLeaves

RedCarpetRebellion “As a victim of csa and images of child abuse it’s a repugnant attitude to find on this forum and not one I’ve seen here on similar threads. It’s definitely anti feminist, anti women and girls.“

I am very sorry indeed this happened to you.
It also happened to my sister with my own grandfather when she was very young and my best friend by a man who had access to us both when I was very young. I also experienced in appropriate incestuous approaches from a close male family member when I was barely a teen. I was leched over by a forty year old not long after.

This is why I do not want paedophiles in the world either. Meanwhile it is all too evident that they are among us in the hundreds or the child abuse porn factory would not be so well used and so many children abused. Children are easy prey for these depraved people.

Do you have an answer as to how to stop them?

I am well aware that porn will not help. AW did not say it would. They related previous opinions that had said it would.

Much more effective safeguards and massive input into addressing sex role socialisation to stop the current socialisation that teaches males they are entitled to use others as sex objects.

You can’t change individuals who have started to find it a sexual thrill to think about children as their own personal sex toy. You can limit their actions if there is very heavy social shame to thinking this way, so that needs strengthened not dismantled, but it’s the underlying problem that socialisation teaches boys their sexual pleasure matters most of all that’s the problem.

Schools should be actively addressing this socialisation, actively safeguarding against it becoming entrenched. Most of the time they just encourage it, even if just by doing nothing. I’ve yet to meet a primary teacher who has any understanding of how sex role stereotypes or gender is socialised. It’s a fucking joke that those entrusted to safeguard children don’t have to study socialisation of gender at all yet DfE guidance says they must address misogyny and tackle stereotypes that harm girls. The majority reinforce them and there’s zero way of holding them accountable for this.

Is this the sort of therapeutic approach the Prof was thinking of?

Sharing with a warning.

twitter.com/4wpub/status/1465474414649217028?s=24

No. It wasn't.

Can we just agree that anyone researching pedophilia from a perspective of “queering criminology” is going to do more harm than good? Even if their intentions are good.

I’m all for research on this topic but let’s acknowledge that some “research” is propaganda.

This Twitter thread gives some insight into how research like this can be leveraged by people with a sinister agenda.

mobile.twitter.com/pankhurstem/status/991414336030695427?lang=en

A researcher who’s consulting with pro-pedophile groups is a useful propaganda weapon even if they mean well.