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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans professor is placed on leave after interview defending pedophiles

322 replies

PandorasMailbox · 17/11/2021 12:41

Oh dear, how very sad.

Don't let them back in!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10210713/Trans-professor-placed-leave-controversially-defending-pedophiles.html#comments

OP posts:
Garriet · 17/11/2021 20:29

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

There is no science behind the idea that if you facilitate watching of child porn to satisfy your urge, then you are less likely to go on to offend. Most models of sexual offending talk about how you first overcome the psychological barriers (it's wrong, I shouldn't do this) then the physical barriers. They also look at how the things you do are reinforced by the effect you have - i.e. if you do something and you have an orgasm, you're more likely to do it.

So basically this professor wants to break down the psychological barriers for people and the get them more and more interested in child porn.

Even without looking at how you make child porn for them to watch in the first place, anyone who makes statements like this has no place in academia.

Pontificating on your own abuse and narrow world view is not something which should be paid for and not something which someone in a position of power should ever do.

Exactly this. Finkelhor’s model is probably the best known and widely researched model of child sex offending. The offender overcomes internal resistance before creating external opportunity. This means they normalise their urges and self-justify offending behaviour,

Suggesting paedophiles watch scenes of child sex abuse to prevent child sex abuse is like trying to put a fire out with petrol.

All it will do is enable that overcoming or internal barriers, normalise their urges and encourage them to justify offending.

Garriet · 17/11/2021 20:31

Sorry that should read:

Suggesting paedophiles watch scenes of child sex abuse to prevent more child sex abuse is like trying to put a fire out with petrol.

verymiddleaged · 17/11/2021 20:40

And even if you wanted to challenge mainstream thinking about how sex offenders work and what might reduce their risk you need to consider child protection.
If the author is genuinely suggesting watching indecent images of children is a solution then she is totally ignoring the abuse of children in her solution which is honestly perverse.

Megan1992xx · 17/11/2021 20:41

The idea that peadophilia is some sort of internalised conflict within the male mind is wrong it is a deeply damaging affliction that has real victims. It seems clear that therapy does not cure it so I am afraid that chemical castration is the only safe option. I believe that Kazhakstan actually does this to their peados.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 17/11/2021 23:05

I like to think that I'm a nice, kind, forgiving person who believes in the wonder of therapy and personal determination and the ability of human beings to change.

But, fuck that. Send them to an island far away - with a weekly shipment of 50 mumsnetters to sit them down and unleash our opinions on them.

Is that "cruel and unusual punishment"?

Kanaloa · 17/11/2021 23:10

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I like to think that I'm a nice, kind, forgiving person who believes in the wonder of therapy and personal determination and the ability of human beings to change.

But, fuck that. Send them to an island far away - with a weekly shipment of 50 mumsnetters to sit them down and unleash our opinions on them.

Is that "cruel and unusual punishment"?

It’s unrealistic and unhelpful, that’s for sure. That’s what I meant about the ‘they should be hanged’ type comments. They’re just meaningless sound bites that actually don’t suggest a solution in any way. You might as well shout ‘I don’t like pedos, aren’t I good?!’
crayray · 17/11/2021 23:11

What relevance is it that the professor is transgender?

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 17/11/2021 23:18

Kanola, I really don't think it's unrealistic, and it'd help me.

It don'ts need a big island. Theres' some unpopulated islands off the scillies and hebrides. I've seen what crowdfunders can do for women - so I reckon we can get a weekly boat for 50 MNrs without much challenge.

I'll provide the stocks myself. For free.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 17/11/2021 23:20

What’s behind your question? Do you think there is a connection between being trans abd defending paedophiliacs?

I thought it was an adjective. You know, male professor suspended, female professor suspended, in this case, trans professor suspended.

PickAChew · 17/11/2021 23:27

Can we stop pretending that somehow on one hand men are masters of the universe but on the other hand completely beholden to their dicks? We don't change the world for opportunistic men. We call out the dangerous men for what they are and if they feel shame about that well that's a good thing.

This.

And rather than us minor I do think of minor as under 16/school age.

crayray · 17/11/2021 23:29

@WorkingItOutAsIGo

What’s behind your question? Do you think there is a connection between being trans abd defending paedophiliacs?

I thought it was an adjective. You know, male professor suspended, female professor suspended, in this case, trans professor suspended.

Clearly I don't think there is a link, hence me asking why it was referenced. It's disingenuous to suggest the headline could just as easily be 'male professor placed on leave etc etc etc'. It would just say 'professor placed on leave' or possibly 'university professor placed on leave'. The fact that in the article, the second bullet point references their preferred pronouns says it all.
PickAChew · 17/11/2021 23:30

@crayray

What relevance is it that the professor is transgender?
That identify into a community that extends way beyond the benign uncomfortable with the body mother nature gave them thing.
Kanaloa · 17/11/2021 23:34

@crayray

It would be weird to say ‘they’ without referencing the person’s pronouns. If you didn’t reference them it could be confusing.

Also in my experience most pronoun havers very much want to talk about their pronouns and have other people talk about them.

CheeseMmmm · 17/11/2021 23:34

I've read a thing that meg John thingy co wrote or similar which put paedophilia in a list of stigmatised sexualities as the most stigmatised.

Queer theory I mean I'm no expert but the idea is it's about 'queering' society, disrupting boundaries, that sort of thing.

I expect there's more info online.

The massive issues I have with this (I mean apart from the obvious) are-

  1. Child abuser and paedophile are not equivalent. Loads of child molesters are just opportunists. They have access and opportunity and so take what they want. This isn't exactly an interest of mine but I'd bet even those who groom etc aren't all paedophiles. Children are easier to manipulate and way less likely to tell if you tell them whatever will happen. Plenty of men who abuse their children are having sex with partner. I mean that's s guess but the children came from somewhere...
Does anyone have info on how many child sexual abusers are actually intrinsically sexually attracted to children? How many are attracted to children and adults? How many are just opportunists? I imagine it's info that's hard to get, they're notoriously manipulative. Anyway.
  1. This is HUGE. Why this seemingly universally accepted understanding that a paedophile will hurt a child? Bear with me. It's rape. It's assault. It's an appalling crime and perpetrators are vilified.
Most men are not rapists. So why this acceptance they will all act? If it's accepted that they can't help but commit appalling crimes to get sex. Then is that different to other men? No reason it should be. Either all men will rape if given the chance or not. The accepted view that of course they will. Is at total odds with what the deal is with men who are attracted to women. Or is it? Society says if they can they will, in part. But also. Of course they aren't. This view of peadophiles is a strong indicator that deep down even people like this uni person are saying yes. All men will rape if given half the chance.
  1. Just fuck off maps. Virtuous paedophiles. Fuck off and stop it. We've been here before with PIE. And fuck off anyone seeking to reframe any of this as somehow not what it is.
  1. Yes paedophiles, I mean actual ones. Should be able to get support. Of what type? Fuck knows. Are you a rapist? No. Well then don't rape a child same as you wouldn't a woman or a man if that was who you fancied. Done. Loads of people live without sex. It's not a need FFS.
  1. Jury out on sex dolls etc. Other side thinks likely to reinforce desires and increase likelihood of wanting an actual child.
crayray · 17/11/2021 23:40

@PickAChew I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean

crayray · 17/11/2021 23:41

[quote Kanaloa]@crayray

It would be weird to say ‘they’ without referencing the person’s pronouns. If you didn’t reference them it could be confusing.

Also in my experience most pronoun havers very much want to talk about their pronouns and have other people talk about them.[/quote]
Still didn't need to be in the headline.

CheeseMmmm · 17/11/2021 23:41

Example

summit.sfu.ca/item/13798

Google queer theory paedophilia stigma. Plenty to read.

CheeseMmmm · 17/11/2021 23:42

Last line in preamble to that paper'

'The conclusion underscores the need for a new approach to dealing with minor-attraction in contemporary Western society. I offer eight recommendations for instituting a strategy which incorporates empathy, education, and anti-discrimination measures.'

CheeseMmmm · 17/11/2021 23:51

The underpinning premises of queer theory are instructive when getting to grips with a lot of what's going on at the moment.

Eg words are being queered. Made less clear. Interchangeable. Clear boundary of what they mean and what they don't is gone.

No of course this is not anything to do with what the vast majority of anyone knows about even slightly.

However, it is where current things come from. How why etc no idea..

And there's a lot of it.

The reason I read the thing initially was back when e lord was quietly trying to get everything run by city of London mixed sex. Hampstead ponds being the one most have heard of.

They are the partner of mj Barker who was involved in that awful site aimed at 12+ or similar about sex which was dodgy as all fuck.

Someone on s thread said well mjb is into queer theory and paper or thing about stigmatised paedophiles. Had a look and there it was.

Queer theory is sitting under to this- when you take a look it's like. Ooohhhh. Ok yep that makes sense now.

CheeseMmmm · 17/11/2021 23:54

Trying to find more not read whole thread anyway tired of googling!

mobile.twitter.com/notthatbeard/status/1461038528624791560

Jacaranda75 · 18/11/2021 00:09

How is this person a professor? Their argument defies any kind of logic or reasonable argument. I hope they're fired and stay fired.

As for Minor Attracted Paedophiles... is there anything else that can be done for them? Is there a way to remove libido, either surgically or with medication? If so, that should be an option open to them.

Athenajm80 · 18/11/2021 00:16

@Kanaloa

By non-offending paedophiles I mean people who had come forward for medical/professional help as they had this sexual interest in children, and recognised it as a wrong and deviant behaviour. By coming forward some of them were able to get help and of course just the openness will help children - everyone knew this man was like this so I suppose were likely to be more vigilant.
There was a radio interview with a young man who was attracted to children. At first he looked at CSA images, then one day it clicked that there were actual children being abused to create the images. He went to a psychiatrist and after a few sessions, confessed he was there to get help as he didn't want to be that way. She persuaded him to tell his mum, but then dropped him as a client. No one else would take him on. He ended up forming an online support group for other people like him, but the group was really strict in that if anyone started even talking about CSA fantasies, they would be reported to the police and kicked out of the group. They did actually stick to this and made several police referrals.

It's difficult. Obviously anyone harming a child, looking at images etc is wrong and should be punished severely. I am not in any way defending them. However, if that is the way your brain is wired and it is your 'sexuality', then clearly you need some serious help. I put sexuality like that as I am not an expert in psychology and have no idea whether this can be described as a genuine sexuality or if it is caused by trauma or something else wrong in the brain.

After the radio interview bit of the article, a psychologist (psychiatrist? I always get confused) said that they believed that the way to help stop CSA was to study pederasts and paedophiles so more could be understood about it, which in turn would lead to knowing more about how to prevent it or treat it. No one would give her the funding though as, even though the research was not in any way defending CSA, no sponsors wanted to be part of anything remotely linked to paedophilia.

There's no easy answers, locking them up and throwing away the key doesn't work. There seem to be more and more paedophiles around with the availability of images due to the internet. There were scary stats on a police documentary about it, such a high proportion of mainly men had viewed images.

What this professor has said is very wrong from what I've read, but I haven't read his book or whatever so don't know if he was trying to make the same point as the psych that I read about, and doing it badly, or if he's just a fucked up idiot.

Apologies if I have upset or offended anyone. Please believe me that I do not and would not defend anyone who was hurting a child or looking at pictures. I just find the psychology of it to be... interesting probably isn't the right word.

For anyone who does comprehend my ramblings, there's a fictional book called Saving Noah, written by a child therapist I think. It goes into the idea of an "inactive" paedophile, for wont of a better phrase. I thought it was very thought provoking and harrowing.

CheeseMmmm · 18/11/2021 00:21

Jac I don't think you can accuse them of paedophilia!

This is and has been a thing getting more and more discussed for a few years.

Which is grim. But there it is.

I think Twitter has a bunch of accounts for 'MAPs' unless they got round to deleting them...

CheeseMmmm · 18/11/2021 00:32

Athena- not upset or offended. I don't see it like that though.

My sexuality is that I'm attracted to men. Do I sexually assault them? Do I seek out vulnerable men and groom them? Well no. Obviously.

Lots of men are sexually attracted to women. Plenty can't get a partner at various points in their life. Could be for years. Yes prostitution, date rape etc all of that. But is it a given that they WILL rape? No of course not.

So why is it a given that a man sexually attracted to prepubescent children WILL rape them? That doesn't make sense. With this whole topic there seems to be a universal assumption that these men will groom rape. Why?

Surely it should be. Are you a rapist? No? Well then don't sexually abuse anyone.

The fact that everyone including the men who feel this way seem convinced that it's inevitable is worrying. Why is the whole issue totally that these men will offend of course they will, they need help to be stopped. What does that say to the men? Not a great thing imo.

I also think places irl or online for them to talk is a really really bad idea. They may behave on the site you mention but they've got a whole load of mates they can contact other ways. We've seen that people normalise things for each other. Share ideas. Egg each other on. Anything good and bad. Terrorism, incels, but also different mainstream political groups everyone gets entrenched and etc.

BloodinGutters · 18/11/2021 07:19

@crayray

What relevance is it that the professor is transgender?
I’ve answered that already up thread when someone else asked- didn’t you rtft?

Gender ideology is about breaking down boundaries, taking away language that is used to speak up about our experience, and removing safeguards.

As is rebranding peadophiles as map.

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