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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Still profiting off JK Rowling i see

352 replies

JustcameoutGC · 17/11/2021 06:45

So, the Hogwarts turncoats are getting back together, sans Rowling.

They have a brass neck, that's for sure.

Happy to ring every last penny they can out of the franchise whilst continuing to sell Rowling down the river.

Zero moral compass between them. Either they back Rowling, and thank her for the fact anyone other than their mum knows they exist, or they renounce and walk away. You dont get to have it both ways.

www.theguardian.com/film/2021/nov/17/harry-potter-cast-return-to-hogwarts-to-mark-20th-anniversary-of-first-film

OP posts:
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7
ArabellaScott · 17/11/2021 14:07

All cake and chocolate (frog sort or otherwise) welcome. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to educate me.

I await.

ArabellaScott · 17/11/2021 14:08

Blanket would be nice, too. Knees are a bit chilly.

ElvisPresleyHadABaby · 17/11/2021 14:08

To be fair, if I was young and in the public eye, witnessing what the TRAs have done to Joanne, I'm sure I would be reticent to associate myself. Not that that makes it right, but the things that were said to and about her, how she's been almost erased from her own creation and unanimously vilified, I'd be scared, especially if my career hung in the balance.

ElvisPresleyHadABaby · 17/11/2021 14:10

My kids luckily love HP and JKR, my daughter is an adult now but still a huge (book) fan.

viques · 17/11/2021 14:11

[quote GromblesofGrimbledon]@MargaritaPie

AFAIK Ms K was invited but chose not to turn up. Was it because the rest of the cast are LGBT-friendly and she doesn't want to be around them because of that?

Was it? Was it?

Was it because she doesn't like LGBT people? Was it because she hates trans people? Was it because she thinks trans lives don't matter? Was it because she had to wash her hair that day? Was it because she had to shave her cat? Was it because she doesn't like green eggs and ham?

We'll just never know... [/quote]
MargaritaPie has spoken, and we all know that MP has a hot line to information that us lesser mortals can never hope to access, or appreciate, or understand. We are fortunate that MP generously deigns to share their knowledge even though we are unworthy scurvy TERFy knaves who are not fit to kiss the hem of their garment.

ArabellaScott · 17/11/2021 14:11

'reticent' ≠ 'slagging off in the world press', tho.

Pohtaytoes · 17/11/2021 14:18

What's Tom Felton's take on all the anti JK Rowling stuff on social media?

I don't do twitter or instagram so a bit out of the loop on all this.

I always felt Tom was the better of the young actors though.

DonkeySkin · 17/11/2021 14:24

The thing is, the films and the associated merchandise/theme parks, along with the intense web fandom, became such a cultural juggernaut that they overshadowed the books to a degree, and also obscured the of singularity of Rowling's artistic feat.

In the 20 years since the first film, the Harry Potter franchise became so omnipresent that it started to feel like it belonged to everyone, as if it were a myth that emerged from the collective cultural mind, rather than the achievement of one mind, one woman.

People forget that the seven-book narrative, every character, every detail of the mythos and the universe - none of it was created by committee. One person pulled the entire thing out of herself in an extraordinary sustained feat of imagination that is unmatched by any writer before or since - the only one I can think who comes close is Tolkien, and he's not that close.

But because of the massive franchise and the diffuse, postmodern nature of culture under the internet, I think it feels very easy for the actors and the fans to assume Rowling can be shoved out of the way like an embarrassing aunt, while the films take precedence over the books and the actors over the author.

Films though, even beloved ones, generally have a cultural shelf-life of about 30 years. After that they tend to drop out of the popular imagination and remain unwatched by future generations (the Wizard of Oz notwithstanding). Books are much more enduring. The Harry Potter books will endure, beyond the memory of the films, beyond the life of their creator, and the lives of the actors who shun her for shallow social status.

ChloeCrocodile · 17/11/2021 14:34

I was just thinking that they could do a remake of the Harry Potter series in film

I'd actually like to see it as a TV series. I love the books and the films missed out / changed way too much for my liking. The shocking acting of the children involved is also a problem (for me) and so I just don't enjoy the films at all. A proper TV series (spanning maybe 7 years) would allow the richness and detail to come through better IMO. Probably not worth it for the studios tho - the cost would be astronomical and TV shows don't make as much money.

Sophoclesthefox · 17/11/2021 14:39

No takers yet, arabella?

How strange.

Would you like a nice glass of vin chaud, it’s nippy out here and you look frozen!

ElvisPresleyHadABaby · 17/11/2021 14:40

@ArabellaScott

'reticent' ≠ 'slagging off in the world press', tho.
Quite, but I can see the progression, especially when the pressure from people mostly in their demographic is so great, and their motto is that "silence is violence". I dont know that much bout what each of them said though, if it was personal then obviously that's a line crossed.

Pleased to see Bonnie Wright (Ginny) thanking Jo in her Instagram post, first in the list too.

Sophoclesthefox · 17/11/2021 14:40

Lovely, lovely post donkeyskin 😊

Waitwhat23 · 17/11/2021 14:42

I agree. I have always thought that one of the films in particular (Goblet of Fire I think?) must be indecipherable to anyone who hasn't read the book as so much is missed out (presumably due to time constraints). The Marauders backstory is almost completely missed out for example. A TV series would allow for the stories to be told properly.

And yes, child actors in the main parts who aren't so wooden (particularly in the first 2 or 3 films) would be good.

ElvisPresleyHadABaby · 17/11/2021 14:42

@DonkeySkin

The thing is, the films and the associated merchandise/theme parks, along with the intense web fandom, became such a cultural juggernaut that they overshadowed the books to a degree, and also obscured the of singularity of Rowling's artistic feat.

In the 20 years since the first film, the Harry Potter franchise became so omnipresent that it started to feel like it belonged to everyone, as if it were a myth that emerged from the collective cultural mind, rather than the achievement of one mind, one woman.

People forget that the seven-book narrative, every character, every detail of the mythos and the universe - none of it was created by committee. One person pulled the entire thing out of herself in an extraordinary sustained feat of imagination that is unmatched by any writer before or since - the only one I can think who comes close is Tolkien, and he's not that close.

But because of the massive franchise and the diffuse, postmodern nature of culture under the internet, I think it feels very easy for the actors and the fans to assume Rowling can be shoved out of the way like an embarrassing aunt, while the films take precedence over the books and the actors over the author.

Films though, even beloved ones, generally have a cultural shelf-life of about 30 years. After that they tend to drop out of the popular imagination and remain unwatched by future generations (the Wizard of Oz notwithstanding). Books are much more enduring. The Harry Potter books will endure, beyond the memory of the films, beyond the life of their creator, and the lives of the actors who shun her for shallow social status.

This is so true and well explained. It is unimaginable how she managed to fabricate an entire universe so immersive, I really do think she is the most talented writer I've ever encountered, the cultural impact of her creation is immeasurable.
ArabellaScott · 17/11/2021 14:43

Ooh, is that like mulled wine, Soph? Fab, thank you.

I hadn't expected to be out here so long, I must admit. Am unfolding the camping chair, now.

Anyone? Just a wee quote, doesn't need to be a long one. Just a few words that show everyone just what JK Rowling's heinous crimes are.

Go on, you know you want to! Roll up, roll up! I've got a mince pie for the first person to provide me a valid quote!

Waitwhat23 · 17/11/2021 14:44

@Waitwhat23

I agree. I have always thought that one of the films in particular (Goblet of Fire I think?) must be indecipherable to anyone who hasn't read the book as so much is missed out (presumably due to time constraints). The Marauders backstory is almost completely missed out for example. A TV series would allow for the stories to be told properly.

And yes, child actors in the main parts who aren't so wooden (particularly in the first 2 or 3 films) would be good.

Sorry, this was meant to be a reply to @ChloeCrocodile
sanluca · 17/11/2021 14:48

I would love a series too. The only actor I would miss from the original set is the wonderful Alan Rickman.

Waitwhat23 · 17/11/2021 14:54

Oh, I don't know - I don't think you could get a better Professor McGonagoll than Dame Maggie Smith - she is incomparable.

I've got a bit of a soft spot for Matthew Lewis (even in the early films) and I think Tom Felton was fabulous at spitting out Malfoy's rude lines!

Sophoclesthefox · 17/11/2021 14:56

@ArabellaScott

Ooh, is that like mulled wine, Soph? Fab, thank you.

I hadn't expected to be out here so long, I must admit. Am unfolding the camping chair, now.

Anyone? Just a wee quote, doesn't need to be a long one. Just a few words that show everyone just what JK Rowling's heinous crimes are.

Go on, you know you want to! Roll up, roll up! I've got a mince pie for the first person to provide me a valid quote!

It is like mulled wine. Looks like you’re in for a long wait, should I bring the whole pan?

Come on people! JKR has been denounced the length and breadth of the Internet, it shouldn’t be hard to lay your hands on one, tiny quotation that proves what a despicable witch she really is?

ChloeCrocodile · 17/11/2021 15:00

I liked Maggie Smith as McGonagal, but felt Oldman and Rickman were too old. I always imagined Black, Lupin and Snape to be mid 30s in the Prisoner of Azkaban. We didn't see nearly enough of the Weasley siblings in the films and the marauder's map is one of my favourite details in the books.

Basically, I think that they should make a TV series that I get to do casting for and include all of my favourite bits with none of the stuff I don't like!

Precipice · 17/11/2021 15:06

I'm pretty sure the horrific transphobia in Rowling's essay is things like this:

"hitherto totally unfeminist older lady who’s vowed never to visit Marks & Spencer again because they’re allowing any man who says they identify as a woman into the women’s changing rooms"

"reasons for being worried about the new trans activism,"

"I’m concerned about the huge explosion in young women wishing to transition and also about the increasing numbers who seem to be detransitioning (returning to their original sex), because they regret taking steps that have, in some cases, altered their bodies irrevocably, and taken away their fertility. Some say they decided to transition after realising they were same-sex attracted,"

"I’ve wondered whether, if I’d been born 30 years later, I too might have tried to transition. The allure of escaping womanhood would have been huge."

"A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law."

"I’ve read all the arguments about femaleness not residing in the sexed body, and the assertions that biological women don’t have common experiences, and I find them, too, deeply misogynistic and regressive."

" ‘Woman’ is not an idea in a man’s head. "

"When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside."

These types of things are read as horrifically transphobic by trans activists because they involve the idea that you can't change sex, that saying you're a woman doesn't make you a woman, that single-sex protections and services should be upheld, that making everything unisex is often undesirable and dangerous for women, that gender identity is largely based on sexist ideas, and that for many these problems with their "gender" are temporary.

The reason they don't want to point to these quotes from the essay to back up their points is that they're aware that these are normal statements with which most members of society will agree with and not find objectionable.

digitalvertigo · 17/11/2021 15:15

@SoniaFouler brilliant to hear! Thanks

Waitwhat23 · 17/11/2021 15:17

Yes, if TRA's openly said 'saying that human beings cannot change sex is transphobic!', then the vast majority of the population (particularly those who haven't been aware of this 'debate') would say 'but human beings can't change sex - what on earth are you on about?' .

That's why it has to be couched in hyperbole and emotive language with no links to evidence and why the chilling effect was so effective as a propaganda tool - anyone pointing out reality was simply shouted down.

BloodinGutters · 17/11/2021 15:26

@ElvisPresleyHadABaby

The weasel said he wanted to insert some kindness in the argument, then trans people oppressed yadda yadda. With no mention of jkr other than his initial insinuation she was so unkind.

But he also named his baby humpday so…

I don’t know what the other two said. But EW claimed that her beauty and the beast was a feminist one because belle invented an early washing machine to do her laundry chores while she read. The rest of it is the same women must be beautiful and soft and good to be worthy of fixing an abusive males violence towards them, and said male can not help his beastly ways.

ArabellaScott · 17/11/2021 15:29

These types of things are read as horrifically transphobic by trans activists because they involve the idea that you can't change sex, that saying you're a woman doesn't make you a woman, that single-sex protections and services should be upheld, that making everything unisex is often undesirable and dangerous for women, that gender identity is largely based on sexist ideas, and that for many these problems with their "gender" are temporary.

Confused

Hm. I am sorry, those statements all appear to be factual and reasonable. Even if not everyone would completely agree with them I don't see any justification for rape/death threats in there. No mince pie, sorry.

NEXT.