DIANE ABBOTT AND SEX WORK ARTICLE IN THE TIMES

[Mollyollydolly]

Diane tweeted about sex work
'Horrific that Durham University is offering training to students who want to be sex workers part-time. Sex work is degrading, dangerous and exploitative. Uni should have nothing to do with it'.
If you really want to depress yourself look at the responses to her tweet. I really don't understand what went wrong on the left, how is prostitution progressive? I just don't get it, some of the replies from the likes of Femi and blue tick Independent journalists make me feel sick. They sound like pimps.

Saddest of all are the young women who have been gaslight into thinking this is a good career choice. So depressing.

@CheeseMmmm

Durham uni su www.durhamsu.com/resources/supporting-student-sex-workers-3b0b

Took me here
www.thestudentsexworkproject.co.uk/

I've not got time but if anyone has might be worth looking at that site

Lottery funded?!

That seems to be all about the normalisation of prostitution

If you are already sex working or planning on starting a career in sex work, it is paramount that you keep yourself safe at all times

Mumdiva99 yes I think there's a lot to unpack about the background nuances going on.

Very hard to work out exactly what the motivations are.

I do know someone who works there and in this area of academia, who once said there's a grey area around listening to women who are involved in "sex work." Whilst I deplore the whole thing and don't believe that it's anything other than abuse, solutions are not simple.

@Binjob118

Heard a young man on radio yesterday say he sold pictures and videos on Onlyfans in first year for easy money. But when he got near graduation he tried to remove all traces of this, he obviously realised the full implications by then. If sex work is only 'work', why do we need special support services? I haven't seen any services for people who work at Costa FFS!

Or why having been a stripper you have to remain anonymous at an Employment tribunal

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8fedf106-41b5-11ec-90b4-dd43226240e0?shareToken=2adf8158d379dd6151f1c652d6417b27

@KimikosNightmare

That seems to be all about the normalisation of prostitution

If you are already sex working or planning on starting a career in sex work, it is paramount that you keep yourself safe at all times

Hadn't seen that.

No that's deplorable.

@Mumdiva99

Let's not blame University here. Let's look at society that are normalising sex work. Only fans has been promoted as a 'legitimate' way to make lots of money by the likes of Kerry Katona, Sarah Jane Dunne etc..... Then there is TV content in itself which is explicit and pornographic etc etc.... If its on TV and I do it on the Internet that isn't pornography....etc etc....

I would think most the sex work is online and that it would involve women and men. Does it horrify me that we have got to this point - absolutely. I came on this thread 100% with Diane. And I fully respect her for speaking out. But, on the other hand.....if it is happening are the SU being responsible in addressing this?

Think about things like County Lines education in schools......would we hope that a 'just say no' message is enough? Hopefully. But it isn't. County Line happens and is a real danger to kids- so they are educated on knowing the signs to keep themselves safe.

Do I ever want my kids doing any kind of sex work....absolutely not.

Your comparison with county lines is misplaced. Children and young people need to be educated about that from the point of view of never getting involved because it is illegal and dangerous. They are not being educated, as is the case here , of how to get involved but keep themselves safe.

Prostitution isn't illegal of course but it is dangerous and damaging.

From the author of the toolkit

twitter.com/graceyoutreach/status/1459154322743345156?s=21

Think about things like County Lines education in schools......would we hope that a 'just say no' message is enough? Hopefully. But it isn't. County Line happens and is a real danger to kids- so they are educated on knowing the signs to keep themselves safe.
I don't think County Lines education is about teaching children how to traffic drugs safely though, is it? Surely it's about teaching them to recognise the signs before they get sucked in?

Sorry - hadn't seen Kimoko had picked that point up already

I think that it's quite common for gay male students to do sex work, are they allowed to attend safety training as well?

@CheeseMmmm
Thank you for finding the all the links including the Durham
Letter about supporting and advising students involved in ‘sex work’ and the other links to organisations doing this.

Durham says that staff need guidance so they can help any student who comes to them, and that they don’t want students who are involved in this to feel they cannot access help.

Another link is for organisations set up to offer counselling and guidance, with one running a scheme offering support and help to get out of it and into other jobs.

The term ‘sex work’ must be intended to avoid adding stigma and shame to students
needing to access help.

So it is a vicious circle in that the term ‘sex work’ is intended to help, but at the same time spins the idea that this abuse is normal work or a normal service.

The rot must be coming from society.

‘Bat-shaver
And well heeled undergrads do not sell their fannies.’

You may be wrong.

A student came on to mumsnet last summer to talk about how much this is now almost expected.

Do rules allow linking to previous threads?
I think I remember that at Freshers Week at Edinburgh there had been stalls for how to start an OnlyFans and the discussion went from there.

Author of the tool kit:

@Chickenkatsu

I think that it's quite common for gay male students to do sex work, are they allowed to attend safety training as well?

Do you have any facts or statistics to back that up?

I'd be amazed if the workshop didn't include a recruiter or two.

I think what went wrong on the left is partly to do with that very individualist concept of “choice”. You can’t disapprove of “sex work” because it’s a woman’s “choice”, just as it’s her choice to shave her legs, have cosmetic surgery, stay with an abusive man, etc.. Finding a problem with any of this things is hitting down on women or being a feminist fun sponge or denying women “choice”. And when you are stuck viewing it at that level, it’s hard to get out of that argument.

That’s why structural forces, the way society works, the embedded disadvantages for and expectations on women, are important in feminism, for it to make sense. Of course women make choices but the forces that lead them to choices that are harmful to themselves and/or to women in general are what we should be understanding and dismantling - and I’d argue that’s how the gains feminism has made so far have actually worked (changing laws, attitudes and expectations, not just saying any choice a woman makes must be fine and dandy).

There's a tone in those replies to Diane Abbott that you don't see with other MPs, even those regularly abused on social media. 'Auntie'? I've never seen that used pejoratively before but suppose it's a handy shorthand that manages to be racist, misogynist and ageist in just one word. She does well not to tell any of them to fuck off.

Do they really, literally not see 'sex work' as any different to any other paid employment or are they just hard of thinking? Is this a generational issue to them?

That’s why it ties into the trans agenda too. Every choice must be respected and acknowledged as right, good and “valid” simply because an individual wills it, without looking into why it’s happening and who’s being harmed.

@BraveBananaBadge

There's a tone in those replies to Diane Abbott that you don't see with other MPs, even those regularly abused on social media. 'Auntie'? I've never seen that used pejoratively before but suppose it's a handy shorthand that manages to be racist, misogynist and ageist in just one word. She does well not to tell any of them to fuck off.

Do they really, literally not see 'sex work' as any different to any other paid employment or are they just hard of thinking? Is this a generational issue to them?

Within certain African or Caribbean communities the term 'Auntie' is a term of respect. It is not shorthand for misogyny or racism or ageism. Please be aware of what it is you speak so confidently about without having a clue.

Thanks Vladmirs, you're right I wasn't looking at it that way - and probably just ready to think less of your average social media ranter thorough a Euro/ US understanding of the term. I stand corrected on that.

@MargaritaPie

I think it's great the Uni is offering help and support to their students involved in the sex industry.

And I think Diane has been taken in by a completely misleading headline and misunderstands what this is about.

I totally agree!

Why is it so good to support people (in reality that will be overwhelmingly young women) who want to take their clothes off for men, or have sex for money with men? And do those young people not realize that their choice of profession after university might be closed to them in some circumstances?

@merrymouse

I'm totally confused as to what is going on. Durham say they want to support students providing sex services to do it safely.

The problem is that there is no safe way to provide sex services for money.

But there are "safer" ways to do it than completely unguided. See for example this thread

twitter.com/jeremywhorebyn/status/1459180927666606084

@Binjob118

Heard a young man on radio yesterday say he sold pictures and videos on Onlyfans in first year for easy money. But when he got near graduation he tried to remove all traces of this, he obviously realised the full implications by then. If sex work is only 'work', why do we need special support services? I haven't seen any services for people who work at Costa FFS!

and see how that young man would have benefitted from some timely advice?

There are forums for sex workers, sexual health clinics they can go to without judgement, buddy systems in place and all manner of tools that keep sex workers safe these days. I would rather they had open access to these facilities than go 'underground' where they are at greater risk (because there's always a risk regardless) of being exploited and harmed. Sex work is a fact of life - I've known a few of them in my time and they're all better for having access to these spaces than without.