School not using "girl" and "boy"

[Personwithrage]

My year 7 DC had a session on puberty in RHSE yesterday. As part of this they labelled diagrams of "people with penises" and "people with vaginas" so as to "not make transgender people uncomfortable" as someone could be "born a boy but believe their personality makes them a girl".

I am so so cross.

I don't have a gender identity, absolutely and wholeheartedly reject regressive stereotypes and have brought DC up to challenge them and to believe they can do and be whoever they want to be. I have also always talked about biological reality and believe that whatever you do, say, wear or think you are still a boy or girl as defined by your biology.

Am I over reacting? Is it unreasonable and excluding to expect puberty lessons to refer to male and female, boy and girl? Is it not ok for my child to refer to themselves in terms they're comfortable with? Are there really lots of 11 year olds with gender dysphoria and a sense of gender identity such that this rings true?

See safe schools alliance for info

They are NOT allowed to teach the 'born in the wrong body' narrative.
Complain. Go see the head. Ask to see ALL PSE teaching materials. Get other parents on board.
Yes Safe Schools Alliance.
This cr*p is so dangerous.

I've had a look through and am going to use the letter about general RHSE teaching but I saw the gov guidance does suggest teaching about gender identity so am not sure if that's what they're following. Is there any school of thought about whether it's ok to refer to children as trans at 11? I completely accept that many young people know they are not heterosexual from a relatively young age and discussions should not be heteronormative for that reason, but are we really saying the same thing re trans identities?

The more I think about this....

Why does it make people MORE comfortable to talk about people with regards to their genitals? Why is it MORE ok for 11 year olds to say "as a person with a vagina" than "as a girl"

Quite frankly it doesn't make me feel more comfortable

@Personwithrage

I've had a look through and am going to use the letter about general RHSE teaching but I saw the gov guidance does suggest teaching about gender identity so am not sure if that's what they're following. Is there any school of thought about whether it's ok to refer to children as trans at 11? I completely accept that many young people know they are not heterosexual from a relatively young age and discussions should not be heteronormative for that reason, but are we really saying the same thing re trans identities?

This is the DfE guidance. “We are aware that topics involving gender and biological sex can be complex and sensitive matters to navigate. You should not reinforce harmful stereotypes, for instance by suggesting that children might be a different gender based on their personality and interests or the clothes they prefer to wear. Resources used in teaching about this topic must always be age-appropriate and evidence based. Materials which suggest that non-conformity to gender stereotypes should be seen as synonymous with having a different gender identity should not be used and you should not work with external agencies or organisations that produce such material."

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/schools-resources-and-policies/

Gvmt guidance does NOT support teaching about gender identities.

Read the fact sheet on Safe Schools Alliance , it contains the gvmt guidance. It says do not reinforce harmful stereotypes, for instance by suggesting that children might be a different gender based on....

Cross post with Clymene. But her post was much more comprehensive

Knowing whether they are on a male or female development pathway is vitally important for children no matter what their gender identity is.

They need to know which they are on to know how they should usually be developing and what to expect around puberty. They need clear unambiguous language to understand what their sex means for them in terms of contraception and pregnancy.

If the teaching staff genuinely believe that the words “boy” and “girl” are triggering and uncomfortable, one assumes that they replace them in all circumstances, not just RHSE lessons?
So, in school assembly it’s “Good morning vagina owners and penis havers”, is it?

If not, there is a gaping hole in their logic. Which needs ridiculing to the head teacher pointing out.

Thank you all for your help.

I'm so cross and disappointed I can't think straight.

Is there any decent reason why children shouldn't use the terms girl and boy? Am I failing to be reasonable and see a different pov here? What is wrong with those terms?

"If the teaching staff genuinely believe that the words “boy” and “girl” are triggering and uncomfortable, one assumes that they replace them in all circumstances, not just RHSE lessons?
So, in school assembly it’s “Good morning vagina owners and penis havers”, is it?
If not, there is a gaping hole in their logic. Which needs ridiculing to the head teacher pointing out."

They have segregated sports lessons (maybe by gender not sex?) but the girls don't get to do football....

Hi op, the government guidance on gender identity is non statutory.
This means they don't have to teach it, but if they do they have to comply with guidance.

I'd advise you to put everything in writing and request a meeting covering the specific points you raise:

Seven year olds are prone to misconceptions- how has the teacher ensured that all children know and understand that girls and boys, women and men are sex classes and non changeable.(some pupil voice of your own child's misconceptions would help here, just grab a pad and ask open questions.)

When will the appropriate 'balancing view' as outlined in the DfE be taught. Can you give me a term or date?

How are you defining trans so that the children understand without using stereotypes?

What support is in place for children who these issues address.

How will it be ensured that children have enough correct information about their own sex to make sure they have full understanding and information about puberty.

How will the school provide for gender identity whilst upholding the equality act(changing, toilets) and making sure fairness is achieved for girls(sports day and teams)

And your own points. I'm sure you have many.

I'd then print out the relevant guidance and bring it with me (along with the year 3-6 sex and relationships curriculum and page, with relevant passages highlighted)

Let them know that you will be forwarding to the governors of all your points are not addressed in a timely manner.

After meeting, summarise and send in an email to the head and relevant parties.

It's also a safeguarding issue - if the difference between the sexes isn't taught, it means that girls and women can never point to the rights they currently have to single-sex toilets, female-only changing facilities, etc.

And girls who are taught that some people with penises and beards are female can't challenge the male staff member watching them in the shower after PE, as they have been taught that it's wrong to judge people based on their bodies in every circumstance.

You might also be interested in yesterday's BBC Nolan show on "people with periods" - there's a thread on this board but can't link atm.

Girls can't play football?!
As in on the curriculum time or in a club.
Unless it's an external club they should not be doing that.

I'd start with that.

Schools have been actively promoting trangenderism for about 10years.
Youve only just noticed.
Ive always disagreed with it but I know better than to say anything as I need my job.
Stonewall posters (as in physical pieces of paper stuck on walls) are nothing less than propaganda. One says in big red letters, something like:

Are you sure
you're in the right
gender?
Ring us now and we'll support you.
Stonewall

And how do the “people with vaginas” know that they have vaginas?

This brainless PSHE teacher is relying on the fact that someone else has at some point told them that they are, indeed, girls.

Plastered on walls inside a school near you!

Ugh. That is such an inappropriate way to teach.

I would open a dialogue with school about not just the language used but also the content of the lessons. You have a right as a parent to ask about the curriculum and what scheme they have (probably) bought in. Ask to see the lesson plans, if you have to. I've opened up a dialogue with my own DC's school and they are aware of my views and concerns and have fully explained how they teach RSE. I feel that they've managed a sensible approach. They have obviously read around the subject quite widely.

Anyway, you have the ability to perhaps influence their teaching around gender or, at the very least, make them think and reevaluate. It also helps if you can get some other parents on board.

Please, please, please get them to (try to) spell out to you exactly what they mean by a "girl personality"! While giving them your hardest Paddington stare throughout.
(I may sound flippant but what they are doing/saying is totally WAY beyond acceptable, I would be raging and it absolutely needs challenging!).

Thanks all.

I am adapting the SSA letter about pshe but adding in that while I encourage respect for beliefs we don't share, that doesn't mean my child should use dehumanising language nor be prevented from using terms she feels comfortable with. I am also pointing out, as @Babdocsays, they're v happy to use girl and boy elsewhere - why not when related to puberty.

To be clear it's a high school, she is year 7 not 7!

That's 11/12 right?

If they had any "transgender girls" would they actually use "person with a penis" to describe them?

Oh sorry, my bad, skim reading fail.

The pe thing might be slightly different then, as I know they teach different types to girls and boys in secondary based on teacher skills.
Still a bit pants though. Girls should have the opportunity to play football. Not all of us enjoy being weebils in netball.

Opening a dialogue in year seven probably looks very different, but the pathway is probably still the same:
Teacher, subject leader, headteacher, governors, Ofsted.

Yes, funny how they rely on primary teachers to do all the donkey work, teaching the difference between girls and boys, then use that good knowledge base to peddle crap.

Yes @Ereshkigalangcleg, my dc is 11.

Good point, surely being called a person with a penis is as triggering for those boys who have dysphoria?

I would have thought that the appropriate labels would be male)female reproductive organs.

Sounds like they are complicating something that should be very simple.