School not using "girl" and "boy"

[Personwithrage]

My year 7 DC had a session on puberty in RHSE yesterday. As part of this they labelled diagrams of "people with penises" and "people with vaginas" so as to "not make transgender people uncomfortable" as someone could be "born a boy but believe their personality makes them a girl".

I am so so cross.

I don't have a gender identity, absolutely and wholeheartedly reject regressive stereotypes and have brought DC up to challenge them and to believe they can do and be whoever they want to be. I have also always talked about biological reality and believe that whatever you do, say, wear or think you are still a boy or girl as defined by your biology.

Am I over reacting? Is it unreasonable and excluding to expect puberty lessons to refer to male and female, boy and girl? Is it not ok for my child to refer to themselves in terms they're comfortable with? Are there really lots of 11 year olds with gender dysphoria and a sense of gender identity such that this rings true?

Good luck op.

Gather your evidence, document any conversations and reach out to other parents.

Don't let them fob you off and keep records of everything.

@Personwithrage

My year 7 DC had a session on puberty in RHSE yesterday. As part of this they labelled diagrams of "people with penises" and "people with vaginas" so as to "not make transgender people uncomfortable" as someone could be "born a boy but believe their personality makes them a girl".

I am so so cross.

I don't have a gender identity, absolutely and wholeheartedly reject regressive stereotypes and have brought DC up to challenge them and to believe they can do and be whoever they want to be. I have also always talked about biological reality and believe that whatever you do, say, wear or think you are still a boy or girl as defined by your biology.

Am I over reacting? Is it unreasonable and excluding to expect puberty lessons to refer to male and female, boy and girl? Is it not ok for my child to refer to themselves in terms they're comfortable with? Are there really lots of 11 year olds with gender dysphoria and a sense of gender identity such that this rings true?

insanity there are so many things to point out in that, first off its sex not gender and you cant identify out of puberty, its biological fact.

secondly if anyone was bothered by the words girl or boy how can penis owner be better when it is essentially exactly the same thing but more descriptive and thus drawing attention to what they do or dont have, and furthermore wouldn't using descriptive language of this nature run the risk of alienating some DSD kids.

if I was you I would teach your own child, my son had sex ed/puberty lessons at 10, he said it was crap they didnt even say a word about periods, no wonder kids are confused as feck.

if I was you I would teach your own child, my son had sex ed/puberty lessons at 10, he said it was crap they didnt even say a word about periods, no wonder kids are confused as feck.*

We need people like the op to fight this though, as for some children it's the only sex education they're likely to get and they are often the most vulnerable pupils too.

My dc knows they are able to talk to us about anything and they have books about puberty plus they had good sessions in primary school. Yesterday they came home and talked over some of the things that were new to them or that they didn't understand fully, like why orgasm is important for conception and I was happy to answer and talk through it all. I do recognise that this is not the same for all young people though.

I just came a bit unstuck when told they they were not allowed to use the term boy or girl!

I've got two girls.
The oldest is 7.

I worry about what we've got to look forward to in the coming years.

@Personwithrage

My year 7 DC had a session on puberty in RHSE yesterday. As part of this they labelled diagrams of "people with penises" and "people with vaginas" so as to "not make transgender people uncomfortable" as someone could be "born a boy but believe their personality makes them a girl".

I am so so cross.

I don't have a gender identity, absolutely and wholeheartedly reject regressive stereotypes and have brought DC up to challenge them and to believe they can do and be whoever they want to be. I have also always talked about biological reality and believe that whatever you do, say, wear or think you are still a boy or girl as defined by your biology.

Am I over reacting? Is it unreasonable and excluding to expect puberty lessons to refer to male and female, boy and girl? Is it not ok for my child to refer to themselves in terms they're comfortable with? Are there really lots of 11 year olds with gender dysphoria and a sense of gender identity such that this rings true?

Are there really lots of 11 year olds with gender dysphoria and a sense of gender identity such that this rings true?

Depends whether Stonewall have been visiting their school.

If the topic is puberty, I'd say it's vitally important, at age 11, to know what to expect and how your body will grow and change. Avoiding simple, clear language like girl and boy is likely to confuse some children, who may imagine they get to choose which sort of puberty they get, like selecting an avatar for a computer game...

It would be cruel to allow a boy to think he can choose to have a body which can carry and give birth to a baby. Let's not bamboozle our children.

School have replied and stated that these terms were used to highlight that some children may not identify as the gender they were assigned at birth.

That is exactly my problem and opens a fresh can of worms for me.

@Personwithrage

School have replied and stated that these terms were used to highlight that some children may not identify as the gender they were assigned at birth.

That is exactly my problem and opens a fresh can of worms for me.

Then complain.

The dfe guidance says schools must not teach that kids can be born in the wrong body.

Was the reply on email? So you have it in writing that they are breaching the guidance. Tell them they have to fix their policy & plan to comply with the guidance, and show you proof, or you’ll use that to put a formal complaint in. Get a time frame agreed, so you know they’ll show you the new plan with in two weeks, and let you know when training will be completed on it by what date.

Ask them to explain the grievance procedure to you. Dfe guidance on grievance procedure is that ht must support parents to use this, dfe say that if they don’t you should go straight to dfe iirc.

Follow it up.

Am doing the same just now, has taken repeated informal complaints/meetings etc, have sent lots & lots of links.

It’s very frustrating. But is finally slowly starting to feel like they are getting it. And they definitely know we will put a formal complaint in if they don’t fix it to follow the guidance.

Ask who they received training on this from also- and check into them yourself, because it’s entirely possible they are paying someone who breeches the guidance, and that’s also something to put in the complaint.

Email ssa also, they do reply & will support you.

Lots of us are having to do this currently.

Oh & copy chair of govenors into all emails to head

Thank you for your advice.

I feel instinctively unhappy with this but also not knowledgeable enough to challenge it properly.

My dc were not assigned a gender at birth. I don't know of anyone who was!

@Personwithrage

Thank you for your advice.

I feel instinctively unhappy with this but also not knowledgeable enough to challenge it properly.

My dc were not assigned a gender at birth. I don't know of anyone who was!

Use safe schools alliance resources.

Download the dfe pshe guidance and the plan your curriculum guidance.

I printed them out and went through with highlighters and post its to mark all relevant parts (there’s lots).

I printed off a lot of ssa & tt resources and did the same.

Check the schools policy (up to date one must be on the website or that breeches guidance).

Check your schools grievance policy. Imho it’s worth making sure board of governors are informed because they play a role in policy making. Tell head before you put a formal complaint in- once you email FORMAL COMPLAINT it remains on file for ofsted to see, schools try to do everything they can to avoid this. Sit him down and point out the highlighted parts he’s breaching, tell him if it’s not fixed you will putt in a formal complaint. Ssa advise copying ofsted into a formal complaint- and that’s right because how pshe is assessed by ofsted is complex and comes under several headings including safeguarding and pupils social and moral development. How can schools teach girls to speak up about boys in girls toilets if they also teach them boys might be girls? They can’t, so it’s a safeguarding fail. Ofsted have said in times last week they expect half of all schools with outstanding ratings to loose them, some down to be rated inadequate.

I emailed links from safe schools alliance, transgender trend, genrespect, sex matters and the Keira Bell judgement, because that has serious implications for schools also.

Keep at them. My kids school is fairly good overall but it’s became really obvious that I know their own policy’s, the dfe guidance and the education act better than they do- with regards to a few things, not just this- which feels ridiculous to be teaching teachers how the government says they should teach but my kids are my priority within their school, and they have a bucketload of different priorities that take up their time, so it’s probably not surprising parents know more about the issues that impact our kids within schools than the schools themselves do.

Just keep at them. Follow it up.

Oh & print off the nhs inclusive language policy.

It says sex is registered at birth. It acknowledges that they use sex assigned at birth only when talking to transgender audiences because that’s the language they prefer- so they acknowledge that it’s not factual.

In dfe guidance they say schools must check all resources comply with the guidance - that includes definitions taken off of nhs or even out of a bloody dictionary. The guidance says this and ssa have a letter you can print from the dfe saying it’s schools responsibility.

The school have stated they use the PSHE Association and Brook for lesson plans and terminology. In the DfE guidance they link to these organisations as examples of what can be used.

I can see that both state things like "we all have a gender identity" and "gender assigned at birth" however which seems contradictory (and seriously wrong!)

@Personwithrage

The school have stated they use the PSHE Association and Brook for lesson plans and terminology. In the DfE guidance they link to these organisations as examples of what can be used.

I can see that both state things like "we all have a gender identity" and "gender assigned at birth" however which seems contradictory (and seriously wrong!)

Nope nope nope

Dfe says in the guidance and in the letter they send to ssa, that’s on ssa site, that they don’t endorse or recommend any organisations, including those in the resources section and that they don’t check these resources because it’s schools responsibility to check they comply to guidance.

Which seems fucked I know.

But it means schools have to check it and when they do they’ll find they fail to comply.

Ssa have gone through them and shown where they fail to meet guidance. It’s in the factsheets/resources in their site.

I know this all sucks so bad, I feel miserable and lonely having to repeatedly address it with school. But they are listening, now it’s clicking finally. They mostly don’t know why the guidance were updated or what’s going on. Which they have zero excuses not to know-how can teachers help kids navigates the world they live in if they don’t know about the issues that effect kids…

So keep at them.

It feels overwhelming at the start, but doesn’t take long until you know all the guidance back to front.

I agree. Why pick vaginas as the noted feature? Why not ovaries if we're going internal?

My dc is 11, in year 7 at school, but your points stand.

@oldwomanwhoruns

They are NOT allowed to teach the 'born in the wrong body' narrative. Complain. Go see the head. Ask to see ALL PSE teaching materials. Get other parents on board. Yes Safe Schools Alliance. This cr*p is so dangerous.

This. Please complain.

Parents challenging schools is really gathering momentum. Let’s keep going.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

*Franca some girls do start periods as young as 9 or 10

They do need to know what a vagina is*

They don't need to know the formal terms and the more complex issues of anatomy to manage a period. Many people will talk about period as 'blood coming out f your privates' or something like that. No mention of vagina needed. So no assumption that most 9/10/11 year old girls will know they have a vagina.

But there are other parts of the body which are considered private. The anus, female breasts and male peni. If blood is coming out of any of those places then they should see a doctor. Being taught that it's normal to sometimes have blood coming out of your privates could be dangerous if they aren't specifically told that it should only be coming from a vagina, and that vaginas are female organs.

How on Earth are kids going to grasp the proper detail of sex education if it's all shrouded in nonsense language. Will we see a rise in pregnancies / STDs as a result?

The Brook website has to be seen to be believed.

Imagine being 11 and trying to make sense of this - www.brook.org.uk/your-life/breasts-and-chests/

I've been through the websites they say they base their lessons on.

As statements such as 'sex is a spectrum' and 'gender is assigned at birth, which is a set of characteristics expected of a person of a certain sex' are used throughout, I am v sure the guidance has not been followed.

I've found not only the SSA helpful, but the downloadable PDF from Transgender Trend on schools resources absolutely fascinating

I don't think you are overreacting. If it's a session about the biology of puberty, they should use facts. Some facts may offend or be inconvenient for some people, but it's not acceptable to let this influence everybody else's education. If they do that, they're not teaching biology or science, they're teaching ideology.

Thank you @EarthSight

DH can't really get too worked up about it, but I pointed out that if this was a religious belief it would be presented differently and it would be fine to be up front about not believing it.

I feel like I've fallen down a rabbit hole. The Brook website is so completely and utterly unclear - discussion of emergency contraception with no mention of who could take it for eg. This ideology is so widespread and far reaching.

I just read the Brook website's page on definitions of sexuality and ended up feeling really angry
www.brook.org.uk/your-life/sexuality-a-few-definitions/

Then I read their page on definitions of gender and now I feel really really angry
www.brook.org.uk/your-life/gender-a-few-definitions/