Help me explain to my teenager!

[biggirlknickers]

She thinks there is “no debate” and if a man decides he’s a woman then he wouldn’t go to all that trouble if it wasn’t genuine. He should be seen as a woman. His rights cannot be viewed as different from women’s rights. Even if he is anatomically male. Chromosomes have nothing to do with it, people can be born in the wrong body and I am “not grasping this”.

I need some very easy to digest, difficult to refute points to give her. I’m absolutely overwhelmed with work, health issues etc and I simply don’t have the brain space to give to this right now and I know you lot will help me out.

It doesn’t help that she is very feisty snd I am super placid.

I don’t want to shrink from this though - she needs to understand the other side. She has only been exposed to TRA beliefs so far, from her friends and on Tiktok etc.

Help me!

I should add that I am gender critical. I just can’t formulate my response properly and she is appalled at my views. She seems to think my views are hugely outdated and wrong.

So you're saying she needs to understand the other side, but you yourself are asking others on here what the other side is?

No, I’m asking for some easy to present / easy to digest points I can go through with her.

I have a lot on my plate right now and I’m not very good at forming arguments even when I’m at my best. Especially with a feisty teen.

I find people in this board are very good at explaining things. I need that right now.

First thing that springs to mind is does she realise she is being transphobic by suggesting trans people were born in the wrong body.

However you address it with her, please remind her that as a girl, she is vulnerable to male violence/sexual assault and should be aware that yes, sometimes men do claim they are TW in order to access females to assault, (obvs NATWALT - in fact the majority aren't - but awareness of the possibility is key to keeping safe), in the same way some men hide in sewers, become teachers/sports coaches etc to groom children.

Has she heard of autogynephilia? Or watched sissy porn? There is a very wide range of reasons someone might identify as trans - and under self ID no effort at all is required. Does she really believe a male can become female simply by declaration?

give her either Stock or Joyce to read-they can do the heavy lifting for you and put much better than most of us can do.

However you address it with her, please remind her that as a girl, she is vulnerable to male violence/sexual assault and should be aware that yes, sometimes men do claim they are TW in order to access females to assault

Jacinta Brooks self identifies as a woman, Jacinta is also a sex offender who targets teen girls.

Sorry for the questions - I am sadly under-educated on all this - what is sissy porn? Who are Stock and Joyce?

@AngelicInnocent

First thing that springs to mind is does she realise she is being transphobic by suggesting trans people were born in the wrong body.

Please can you explain this a bit? I believe you, I just need it spelling out.

If the government/board of big company etc was 100% male people that for example looked like Jeremy Clarkson, but 50% of them said "i am a woman", would she consider that true gender equality?

What is a woman (without using the word woman in the definition)?

Can she explain how a biological sex (male or female) can "match" or "not match" a gender identity? Does this explanation rely heavily on concepts of masculinity and femininity? What do those have to do with a person's sex?

@PronounssheRa

However you address it with her, please remind her that as a girl, she is vulnerable to male violence/sexual assault and should be aware that yes, sometimes men do claim they are TW in order to access females to assault

Jacinta Brooks self identifies as a woman, Jacinta is also a sex offender who targets teen girls.

That is what people call trans phobia. Most trans women are not sex offenders. And the automatic jump from trans to MONSTEROHMYGERD is not going to help the OP keep communication channels open with her teen.

Also - is same-sex attraction valid, or should the notion of homosexuality be done away with so that such people are no longer legally protected from discrimination?

Read the 'break it down for me' thread. Sorry I cant link from my phone but search it in the feminism board. It's very clear.

CatherinaJTV

I said jacinta self identifies as a woman and Jacinta is a sex offender. Both these statements are true. Fact is some people will do anything to access victims.

What I didn't say and what I have never said is all trans women are sex offenders

"no debate" is the stance of totalitarian governments. She needs to respect the right of other people to their own viewpoints.
I'd back off and let her have her own ideas on this. She'll meet the cold hard brutal reality of the real world soon enough.

Joyce is Helen Joyce, author of "trans", Stock is Professor Kathleen Stock, author of "Material Girls". Two key texts from a gender critical stance (other wise known as statements of the bleedin obvious)

Not all men are predators but we don't allow them free access to women only spaces. It's my understanding that trans identifying males offend at the same rate as other males so allowing them into spaces where women are vulnerable presents the same risk as opening those spaces to men.

@PronounssheRa

CatherinaJTV

I said jacinta self identifies as a woman and Jacinta is a sex offender. Both these statements are true. Fact is some people will do anything to access victims.

What I didn't say and what I have never said is all trans women are sex offenders

if that's the first thing your mind goes to...

What if your male teen asks you about girls and the first thing you show him is Lorena Bobbitt?

That is what people call trans phobia. Most trans women are not sex offenders.

No one has said that. However women and girls are at risk from men, and some men pretend to be TW in order to access women and girls.

That even you cannot deny.

if that's the first thing your mind goes to...

I was responding to another poster who raised the issue of teen girls being vulnerable to male violence and sexual assault 🙄

When you have a teenage daughter displaying thought processes that will make her more vulnerable, Catherine maybe you will understand.... until then, leave the parenting advice to us - we do actually know better.

@dropthevipers

give her either Stock or Joyce to read-they can do the heavy lifting for you and put much better than most of us can do.

Chapter 1 in Joyce touches on all the main issues.

The first thing I would say is that Trans women have a perfectly valid identity and that should be respected but that identity is different to that of born females due to the different physical and socialisation experiences. Biology matters.