Grayson Perry interview

[Shewholovedthethebanhills]

I thought his answer to the question on gender stereotypes was refreshing: “As a transvestite, I’m heavily invested in gender stereotypes, because otherwise I wouldn’t have a barrier to cross. It would just be dressing.”

@TinselAngel, we don’t have to agree. But no, I never said I want him to go into schools and talk about his fetish. His cross dressing is not the sum total of his identity. He is a great communicator and artist, and yes, I think children do benefit from contact with great artists.

I also find it refreshing to see a man that is exploring aspects of his femininity, without claiming he is a woman.

[quote Yellownotblue]@TinselAngel, we don’t have to agree. But no, I never said I want him to go into schools and talk about his fetish. His cross dressing is not the sum total of his identity. He is a great communicator and artist, and yes, I think children do benefit from contact with great artists.

I also find it refreshing to see a man that is exploring aspects of his femininity, without claiming he is a woman.[/quote]
Oh dear lord. He's not exploring aspects of his femininity!!

He is taking the fact that little girls are vulnerable and easily overpowered, identifying as one in his head as a humiliation fetish, and ejaculating to it.

"Exploring his femininity". Ffs.

He's a massively entitled man who enjoys his sexual fetish in full view of the public. AND tells you! He's loving it, he says he's the luckiest man alive.

Obviously, you might well view the concept of 'femininity', as a male humiliation fetish, who knows?

I simply can't understand why so many women seem so invested in facilitating the promotion and prioritisation of men's sexual urges above other considerations, and their desire to parade their kinks in front of unwilling participants. How good they are at making pots is not relevant.

In what universe is it ok to parade around in an outfit that sexually excites you while giving talks to children

How far will he be allowed to push boundaries

I agree and admit myself I have excused men because they have made some intelligent comments

That he even explains he isn't exploring any feminine side should give anyone pause for thought.

So, again, what part of what he says about himself isn't being believed?

So, again, what part of what he says about himself isn't being believed?

Exactly. It reminds me of the wise response you often see on the Relationships board in threads about abusive or disrespectful partners. "When a man shows you who he really is, believe him".

Here's an interesting (old) documentary narrated by and featuring GP called "Why Men Wear Dresses" - be prepared for female stereotype city!

Thank you, wise women of MN. I wasn't aware of some of the things posted here. Puts a different slant on it entirely.

The difference between GP and other people is that he is more upfront than most about his sexual fantasies. And also that, unlike most men, he doesn’t get his kicks out of dominating or humiliating women.

Eh? Gets his kicks out of going out in public and making women, children and men, feel bloody uncomfortable.

And, if they know he's getting an erection about it, they're going to feel a little more than just discomfort, aren't they?

How would you feel watching Perry talk to a family group while he is wearing one of his voluminous dresses? Do you really think that's not dominating behaviour?

Strewth.

If posters have not seen the documentary above then it's really worth a watch both to understand GP more and also to get an insight into the world of cross-dressing before the current ideology took over. I don't agree with everything that GP says by far but I do find it interesting. I suspect that women who have lived with crossdressers or transitioning males will find it discomforting but also revealing - and a little bit of a taste of 'what it was like before'.

I can't see it Spartacus, says it's not available in my country ...

Sorry - didn't check - I saw it via a database of films in my institution's library :(

Searching isn't throwing up any other hits, unfortunately.

Shame because it's worth seeing.

@lazylinguist

Cross-posted. Exactly, *@foxgoosefinch*. If I were one of those kids and in a few years time I read about GP and his fetishes, I'd be thinking 'Wtf were those adults thinking, fawning over him and inviting him to come and talk to us?!'

Actually I think it’s worse than this, I think kids will then think this is normal, that a man getting an erection in their presence is normal and that their shock or discomfort being the thing that he finds a turn on will then also be normalised.

GP can enjoy whatever kink he likes in private with consenting adults, doing this in public-which he acknowledges he does- it’s what is unacceptable.

His art is for adults and not suitable for children. The same way De Sade’s books can be discussed at uni but teachers shouldn’t be reading them to kids.

@ArabellaScott

I can't see it Spartacus, says it's not available in my country ...

Me neither.

I'm sure it's interesting. But my focus has been altered, due to reading about the transwidows experiences.

I realised that, even on here, a feminist board, we give a disproportionate amount of time to the men in these scenarios.

I guess it's partly because we are trying to understand where it all comes from. Why they act the way they do. How we can reconcile that with living with many of these men on a day-to-day level.

But now, I'd rather see a documentary about the women who are affected by these men, rather than whatever motivations they come up with to account for their behaviour.

Yes, Datun. Time for the families of those affected by trans issues to be given a space to speak.

Actually I think it’s worse than this, I think kids will then think this is normal, that a man getting an erection in their presence is normal and that their shock or discomfort being the thing that he finds a turn on will then also be normalised.

This.

It's so many kinds of wrong.

Are we really trying to teach children that a man getting a sexual kick out of talking to them in a dress is acceptable, is some scenarios, but not others???

Or not in a dress? Or naked? Or it's acceptable if he's honest about it?

It's really worrying that so many people think that a sexual fetish is robbed of harm, if the person owns up to it.

You can't even excuse it with it being a case of forewarned is forearmed. Because you're not doing anything about it. You may as well not be forewarned if you're going to let it go ahead and happen anyway.

But now, I'd rather see a documentary about the women who are affected by these men, rather than whatever motivations they come up with to account for their behaviour

I'm actually interested in both. I'd certainly like to see a documentary about the women who are affected but although I find some of GP's views and actions disagreeable I also appreciate his analysis of them at times and also his analysis of gender and gender roles. I think he gets it very wrong a lot of the time but even then I find it interesting. but then, I frequently watch documentaries about things I disagree with (my institution's library also has a lot of films about cults and polygamy for example and I also watch these elsewhere) simply because I find them interesting.

If posters want a man to go into schools and say to kids I’m a man & sometimes like wearing dresses-with out it being any kind of kink- then invite Nicky Wire in.

He’s always been very clear that he enjoys wearing women’s clothes but it’s never a sexual thing, and he knows he’s still a man when he wears women’s clothes and he clearly isn’t dressed ‘as a woman’ when he does- just on stage in his usual rock look with the odd skirt thrown in. No heels or fishnets or drag make up (rock make up clearly, but he does that in any clothes on stage, there’s no fake eyelashes or lipstick etc to pretend to be a woman) and his usual hair style.

That’s pushing gender stereotypes.

GP isn’t doing that at all, he’s pushing women and girls boundaries to include them unwittingly in his fetish, as it’s their shock that gets him off.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

But now, I'd rather see a documentary about the women who are affected by these men, rather than whatever motivations they come up with to account for their behaviour

I'm actually interested in both. I'd certainly like to see a documentary about the women who are affected but although I find some of GP's views and actions disagreeable I also appreciate his analysis of them at times and also his analysis of gender and gender roles. I think he gets it very wrong a lot of the time but even then I find it interesting. but then, I frequently watch documentaries about things I disagree with (my institution's library also has a lot of films about cults and polygamy for example and I also watch these elsewhere) simply because I find them interesting.

Yeah, I don't disagree that it's probably quite interesting. It's just that I'm more aware of my focus around the issue now. It's more of a personal mental shift.

GP isn’t doing that at all, he’s pushing women and girls boundaries to include them unwittingly in his fetish, as it’s their shock that gets him off.

Perfectly put.

If you are actually getting off on shock, your focus is the boundaries. Without boundary violation, there would be no shock.

No shock, no orgasm.

Yeah, I don't disagree that it's probably quite interesting. It's just that I'm more aware of my focus around the issue now. It's more of a personal mental shift

For me, it is interesting because it's about gender (considered in the second wave sense) and unpacking this. I'm interested in this as well as women's rights (and the two connect). I can't quite steel myself to watch the red pill documentaries a few students have told me about but I am very much interested in the construction of masculinity as well as femininity.

I'd be interested in asking GP how he reconciles the sexual nature of his dressing with going into schools.

@Datun

GP isn’t doing that at all, he’s pushing women and girls boundaries to include them unwittingly in his fetish, as it’s their shock that gets him off.

Perfectly put.

If you are actually getting off on shock, your focus is the boundaries. Without boundary violation, there would be no shock.

No shock, no orgasm.

And- perhaps this requires a qualified forensic psychology perspective, so mine is admittedly not that- but sexual release from boundary violation is something that escalates.

As far as I’m aware there’s absolutely no evidence to suggest this well established and documented pattern with every other boundary fetish doesn’t apply to this boundary fetish.

(Not sure how much I can say without deletion, but I hope that’s clear enough).

sexual release from boundary violation is something that escalates.
This will sound hopelessly naive, but would GP's behaviour have escalated by now if it was going to?

To be clear, that's a genuine question, not a provocative one.