Grayson Perry interview

[Shewholovedthethebanhills]

I thought his answer to the question on gender stereotypes was refreshing: “As a transvestite, I’m heavily invested in gender stereotypes, because otherwise I wouldn’t have a barrier to cross. It would just be dressing.”

Men use women for sexual gratification, and vice versa.
No one is being asked to ignore anything- we are having a discussion.

And girls?

And boys?

Think about what you are not addressing.

And then consider mutual consent.

You've lost me.

I also think I can find what he says alarming and not want to be part of it, without that meaning I want him “cancelled”. I do think he’s a great talent not just as an artist but as a thinker and commentator.

And of course someone could be getting off on you or, sanely, you child without your knowledge. I wear sandals in summer and don’t stop doing that because a foot fetishist might walk past and get turned on.

But I do think that telling people you’re using them to indulge in your fetish and the role your dress plays in hiding you erection etc is taking it a big step further. That makes me feel uncomfortable and used. Even if I’m not in his presence, because it’s about the signifiers of femaleness. I may be a GC feminist and I may not dress like “Clare” but I do wear dresses and I think I have a right to and I don’t think that’s humiliating or makes me second-class.

I also think if I was GP and had said all that, I would make sure I dressed unremarkably and normally for a school visit. It’s not that him going to a school means the kids are at risk of physical harm (they shouldn’t be even if he was a risk - we can’t know who is and that’s why there are safeguards) - it’s that anyone with any sense would make sure they didn’t bring that fetish into that setting. It’s disrespectful, inappropriate and suggests he values his arousal more than making sure boundaries around minors are maintained. No level of talent and artiness should let someone off the hook from understanding that.

sadly not sanely ffs

@foxgoosefinch

I don’t think GC feminists are in the cancelling business, though? I think making a judgment about an artist and their work based on what they themselves say is absolutely fine. People can see his work or him, not see him, see him but find him problematic…no “cancelling” need go on.

Just as, if TRAs don’t like Kathleen Stock’s book, they’re completely free not to read it - but not to “cancel” her with harassing protests. I don’t think anyone here is planning to turn up outside his house shaking a tambourine or letting off smoke flares

Except that @BitMuch says she wrote to schools he visited to express “safeguarding concerns”. This is no-platforming.

Re the dressing up for a school visit, it''s about money and marketing, isn't it? Authors, artists are encouraged to prance about and sell themselves to make more money.

It really isn’t “no platforming”!

I am not sure what to think about this. My initial reaction is to just be bored by his dresses so that he stops getting any shock value and his fetish isn't encouraged.

Obviously his clothes cover him up suitably to be out in public.

But there is something dodgy about a man wearing clothes for fetish purposes in a school. He is saying that he is aroused by "shocking" behaviour around women and children. I don't think I would invite him to a school knowing that.

I am open to be wrong about this. I don't know anything anymore.

I wonder why men enjoy their fetishes in cases where these stem from childhood trauma even if they are socially unacceptable or questionable instead of seeking to 'cure' them?

They get off on it, I suppose, and getting plaudits and money helps. So it goes.

There's no cure to life.

Shit.

YetAnotherSpartacus Thu 11-Nov-21 09:52:30
I wonder why men enjoy their fetishes in cases where these stem from childhood trauma even if they are socially unacceptable or questionable instead of seeking to 'cure' them?

So true.

Also, 'because they can'.

This is so right. I know it.

Re the dressing up for a school visit, it''s about money and marketing, isn't it? Authors, artists are encouraged to prance about and sell themselves to make more money.

Hmm but loads of authors and artists never dress up in anything like that way, in fact being home-based they're generally known for looking pretty scruffy. They might be expected to wear something a bit smarter for a school visit but not dress up and "prance about".

@foxgoosefinch

It really isn’t “no platforming”!

It really isn't.

A man who dresses as a parody of a little girl because he finds the idea of being seen like that humiliating and likes to orgasm to it, should not be invited into a place full of little girls. Or boys.

The idea that it's part of cancel culture, rather than basic safeguarding, is a little worrying.

Hmm but loads of authors and artists never dress up in anything like that way, in fact being home-based they're generally known for looking pretty scruffy. They might be expected to wear something a bit smarter for a school visit but not dress up and "prance about".

Oh for goodness sake.

MrsMadderRose are you an artist/writer?

His honesty is refreshing and I don't think he should be cancelled for simply existing and making art. Equally I find any sort of fetish that involves unwitting members of the public completely unacceptable. It's like a form of indecent exposure or exhibitionism - part of the fetish is making other people uncomfortable and therefore it is a form of sexual threat. GP maybe doesn't see it like that - he talks about the humiliation side of it which is pretty depressing in of itself because the whole idea is that being a woman or girl is humiliating - but that doesn't make it okay to press it on other people. You can do whatever you want in private but really unacceptable to require the presence of other non-consenting people in order to perform your fetish.

Wings yes.

I don't understand why you said "Oh for goodness sake", I don't think what I said is controversial? Just disagreeing that as an artist / writer he'd be encouraged to dress up like that. It's seems obvious to me it's a thing that's pretty unique to him.