Does anyone else feel that the tone has changed on this board?

[ViceLikeBlip]

This board has been incredibly important to me, especially when I felt like I was losing my mind because no one else seemed to see a problem with self ID, and everyone else seemed to believe TWAW (or, I now realise, everyone else was too scared to suggest they might not believe TWAW).

You guys helped me rationalise my thoughts, and realise I wasn't some awful transphobe, and I've been really grateful to be part of this community. And I really felt like I belonged: we were pro women's rights, not anti trans rights, and we didn't believe that all transwomen are dangerous perverts but rather we recognised that dangerous perverts do exist, and they will readily take advtange of any loophole that gives them access to women.

More than anything, you guys have been an absolute mine of information - facts, stats, latest developments, and you've pointed me in the direction of news articles and twitter rows that I never would have seen otherwise. I'm genuinely grateful for this.

But recently the mood seems to have shifted significantly. There seems to be a lot of open animosity and ridicule towards all things trans. The recent outcry about M&S letting some people put their pronouns on their name badges felt uncomfortably close to clamouring to have M&S "cancelled".

I guess I used to feel like this was a safe space where I was with like minded people, but now I don't think everyone on here can hand-on-heart maintain that they're not anti-trans anymore, and it makes me very upset to see this shift happening (and happening quickly).

Sapphic rites and free T-shirts! And cake! Whoop. I knew it was worth selling my soul to the vipers. I mean, the Xtian hard right.

I think more people are having issues with the idea of "true trans" now. (What ever that is.)

That might have started to shift the tone.

Only a couple of years ago we were all trying to "go high when they go low etc."

That wears thin after a while.

And of course, we are all just typical man-hating girls.

Totally agree with OP. A few months ago I raised concerns about GC being bad for feminism as it undermines bodily autonomy, choice (e.g. if I want to describe myself as cis and state my pronouns that's up to me), and defines women by reproductive capacity which I find regressive. I got called stupid, classist , criticised for reading too much of the wrong stuff at uni (what feminist position criticises women getting an education?) criticised for not reading enough, for not responding quickly enough, for combining replies instead of individual quote tweets... the gatekeeper is unreal. It's another way to tell women what to do and what to think. It's not a 'discussion board' - stating the 'wrong' opinion is not tolerated.

And yet again the rights of women are seen as less important than the identity of others, which is not equal or acceptable.

I’ve never seen a poster here wish harm on any trans people- not even the ones who post death and rape threats on twitter, or have assaulted women. But I see a lot of women who are angry they are being told the things they have fought for should be open to all- no matter what the cost is to women. Which is understandable to anyone who feels women are valid, deserve human rights and all the other things so many feel are unnecessary.

@ArabellaScott

Bad Reputation should be this boards anthem.

We need the ‘don’t give a damn’ but repeated every time the #bekind crowd drop by.

We need constant reminders not to submit to female socialisation. We need don’t give a damn reminders again & again & again.

I find it quite sad that all of the feminist anthems of the past that seemed to be so groundbreaking at the time are still, still

still

so bloody relevant. Aren't they, Helen?

@QueenSue

"You're missing out because my clever friends won't come here", and "I cry everytime I visit this scary website" got to be my favourite comments so far.

Thoughts are scary things.

#besafehun

@ArabellaScott

Sapphic rites and free T-shirts! And cake! Whoop. I knew it was worth selling my soul to the vipers. I mean, the Xtian hard right.

years ago there used to me MN meet-ups … I imagine them as being a bit like this

*used to be

stating the 'wrong' opinion is not tolerated.
That simply isn’t true.

Not everyone agrees on everything. There was debate recently on using “women and...” in medical literature. Whilst many posters feel women is enough on its own some posters (including me) felt “and...” was fine. Here was disagreement. No one chased me off the boards, threatened me or made me feel unwelcome.

But there are posters here who do not take disagreement as part of a debate.

It’s not a debate if everyone says the same thing.

Some posters are blunt, some are cutting and some are fairly rude. But no one (unless they are spreading misinformation or talking utter bollocks) is actually made “unsafe” by disagreement.

@foxgoosefinch

The more the merrier! - there will be tea, cake, wine, and optional Sapphic rites if desired

I’m just hot for the music. Punk rebellion is the only thing that makes life worth living some days.

But I am all good with others worshiping my goddesses in whichever way brings you to a beatific state.

Oh now we have choicey choicey as well, bingo! Nearly at that full house…

'It's another way to tell women what to do and what to think'

Is it, aye?

Why the fuck would you regularly read a forum that made you cry? I mean, do what you want, but that seems stupid to me.

and defines women by reproductive capacity which I find regressive

I thought that it was the trans activists who insist on calling women, cervix havers, womb owners and bodies with vagina, not gender critical women?

I don't know, Articus. I am slightly baffled as to why people visit here if it brings them to tears or they find it so awful. There is another board just for those who can't stand this one, it was made specially.

If someone's 'clever friends' don't see a problem with Muslim hijabi women, DV survivor and rape victims having to have penises in their safe spaces, then they aren't very 'clever'. Nor are they moral or decent. They are simply cowards because they know if they come here they won't be able to defend their dangerous position that penises belong in women's safe spaces. They are moral and intellectual cowards with no redeeming qualities. So glad I don't lower myself to have them as friends.

@MsFogi

I think the tone has changed - but my perception is that there are lots of threads started by people who are pro-trans or pro-trans people commenting on the chats and it feels like many of them are not present elsewhere on MN but are simply here to try to steer the "debate".

Out of interest, how do you know that they're not present on other topics? Because women that aren't anti-trans must push a trans agenda during every topic of conversation?

@TRHR

Totally agree with OP. A few months ago I raised concerns about GC being bad for feminism as it undermines bodily autonomy, choice (e.g. if I want to describe myself as cis and state my pronouns that's up to me), and defines women by reproductive capacity which I find regressive. I got called stupid, classist , criticised for reading too much of the wrong stuff at uni (what feminist position criticises women getting an education?) criticised for not reading enough, for not responding quickly enough, for combining replies instead of individual quote tweets... the gatekeeper is unreal. It's another way to tell women what to do and what to think. It's not a 'discussion board' - stating the 'wrong' opinion is not tolerated.

I want to take the opportunity to PRO PLATFORM this magnificent post.

@Pinkfairylights

I knew that this thread would bring all the boys to the yard to tell us we're womanning wrong.

Misogyny is indeed eternal.

Could we get "likes" or "upvotes" set up here in MN? I so like this and so many other posts.

I want to take the opportunity to PRO PLATFORM this magnificent post.

Why would you consider it magnificent when it is trans rights activists who reduce women to their reproductive roles and not GC women. No GC women calls women bodies with vaginad!

Why was Articus deleted?

A few months ago I raised concerns about GC being bad for feminism as it undermines bodily autonomy, choice (e.g. if I want to describe myself as cis and state my pronouns that's up to me), and defines women by reproductive capacity which I find regressive.

In fairness that is a spectacularly daft statement. Nothing to do with a change in tone- that would have been mocked at any point in the last decade.