Leeds now

[Igneococcus]

Students and staff demand their vice-chancellor and senior employees to include preferred pronouns:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c62b8978-38ea-11ec-b83a-bd8490b9f48d?shareToken=36bc0edfe8d32becd4adb61ef97d8822

Loved this comment under the times article

"The few uni students I know have grown tired of gender ideology despite being indoctrinated into it at school. They've realised their trans friends are damaged and tiresome."

It's win/win. They cannot lose. One the one hand you get more people to go along with your belief, and it doesn't matter if people are merely doing it because they are compelled to or because they are clueless (every single statement of faith strengthens your movement), on the other hand you get to identify more people to target with harassment campaigns.

This. There's no way of avoiding the topic if they make pronoun declaration compulsory. It's like forcing someone to put their view on Israel or abortion or Brexit in their email signature.

@groundcontroltomontydon

The faculty of navel gazing must have left its gates open again

Thought this great comment deserved repeating

Wow, just how are these students going to survive in the real world?

It’s a religious test. The students asking for it are bigots, in the original sense.

When my grandparents moved they were often asked ‘are you one of us or one of them?’ My grandfather had no idea what they meant so used to lean on and wink ‘oh one of us’.

It's going to be a question used at interviewees soon, isn't it?

'Are you or have you ever been a regular poster in the Sex and Gender discussions section of Mumsnet?'

Imo this is happening primarily at universities and public sector institutions, because out in the real world the companies are owned by CEOs who won’t have anything to do with this bollocks. One of the things we do when recruiting is look for signs of any activism or beliefs that could cause problems for the company, and reject those candidates.

warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/academy/activities/learningcircles/transqueerpedagogies/queeringuniversity/resources/misgendering/

Some of these 🤯🤯

WTAF

Example.of mosgendering:

"Not affording someone the same opportunities as others who share their gender identity, such as not advertising a women-only programme to trans women."

@bordersmidgebites

Unfortunately I have seen them

Bristol and Cambridge unis so far

Also Durham.

@NecessaryScene

Why is this THE thing that’s causing so much mania? If it was climate change I’d completely understand, but fucking pronouns again. I honestly don’t understand.

Educate yourself by watching this:

That's as hilarious as it is terrifying.

Pronouns are a being used as a shibboleth aren't they & only one "side" are being persecuted.

DH read the headline when we stopped for a break during a walk today, and was apparently baffled. My initial explanation 'it means that some of the women will announce themselves as she/her , while the men ignore it' wasn't sufficient enlightenment so I had to expand a bit on the subject. He was quite astounded to hear that a few women in my company (HR, not the scientists and engineers I work with) were adding she/her to their signatures.

Anyway, the response of the university quoted in the times piece looks as though it should be tolerable by anyone reasonable.

“The use of pronouns – in emails or in meetings – is a personal choice. We do not have policies on this, but do provide support and resources to help inform that choice.”

When I watch the women in that piece speaking I feel sad that they are being manipulated into acting like complete pricks by men.

Universities are creating a hostile environment for gender critical students and staff. This is against the ruling in Maya's case that gender critical views are a protected belief. Jo Phoenix case is crucially important in stopping this for good.

@ErrolTheDragon My initial explanation 'it means that some of the women will announce themselves as she/her , while the men ignore it' wasn't sufficient enlightenment

My experience (in a university) is more mixed. Yes, some women do seem keen to she/her themselves. These are mostly younger, not parents, and very right-on with respect to “progressive” issues. (Not consistently what I would call progressive mind you).

But, many older male colleagues do this too. When I see senior men putting HE/HIM at the bottom of every email they send, it doesn’t half reinforce the patriarchy. “I am your boss and I AM A MAN AND DON’T YOU FORGET IT”

If you Google your local uni + trans inclusion or trans toolkit, it's quite an eye opening exercise. Any I've found all have definitions of lesbian/gay as same gender attraction, they all use cis, they all state pronouns should be announced by everyone. Nothing is stated as "some people believe" as religious materials would. Everything is stated as fact and the line to toe.

I doubt the little flowers have met many angered Glaswegian perimenopausal wimmin. Just bloody try it to my face. I have very little patience with fools these days.

@VitalsStable

When I watch the women in that piece speaking I feel sad that they are being manipulated into acting like complete pricks by men.

They are all blethering out the same crap from the script supplied by Stonewall

I’m a lecturer, thankfully not at Leeds. However if my students asked me my pronouns I’d firstly tell them it’s none of their business. It has no bearing on my job and it’s not their place to be so nosey. I wouldn’t tell my students my sexuality, etc.

I’m certainly not telling anyone my preferred pronouns. They can make their own mind up what they want to use.

Rhiannon isn't it all from men though, these TW (men) who are coming out with all these spurious figures the abuse and suicide, all the vitriol which originally comes from them, just seems like gaslighting on an industrial scale.

The thing that strikes me most about all of this is it's the entitlement borne of being male that is behind them screaming and shouting for what they think they should have.

You don't see many TM behind all this shit, is that because like most of us women, they appreciate what we have as we've had to bloody well fight for it over centuries.

@VitalsStable

Rhiannon isn't it all from men though, these TW (men) who are coming out with all these spurious figures the abuse and suicide, all the vitriol which originally comes from them, just seems like gaslighting on an industrial scale.

The thing that strikes me most about all of this is it's the entitlement borne of being male that is behind them screaming and shouting for what they think they should have.

You don't see many TM behind all this shit, is that because like most of us women, they appreciate what we have as we've had to bloody well fight for it over centuries.

Very true, it’s male entitlement all the way just in another form.

@NecessaryScene

Why is this THE thing that’s causing so much mania? If it was climate change I’d completely understand, but fucking pronouns again. I honestly don’t understand.

Educate yourself by watching this:

What is the mantra that they are all repeating!

Women are not the vulnerable ones despite being attacked and murdered by men. How many trans women were murdered by men last year. How many women born female were murdered by men last year?

@KimikosNightmare

object referring to the Yogyakarta principles

I think it's fair to say that when that was first suggested as a response there was an element of bad faith ( ha- gotcha with your own game !). But the dictatorial and authoritarian language in that demand now makes invoking the Yogyakarta principles a valid option made in good faith.

I've yet to see pronouns in any work emails- even ones from universities- long may that continue.

Tends to be the wellbeing team (and autism team) that have pronouns in signatures in my uni. Student union exec members are very fond of starting meetings introducing themselves and their pet pronouns - generally they do, the next person does really embarrassed to be doing so and then everyone else ignores the edict.

It's a fucking nightmare in sections of the autism community though - they spend so much time looking for people who've misgendered they never actually support any autistics anymore! (I'm autistic, trying to find my way and tend to see the infighting and swerve the fuck away - I'll figure it out myself rather than brave that can of worms!)

@xxyzz

I have a dd at Leeds uni. This story makes me despair somewhat.

Dd was already pretty TWAW when she went. One of her best friends at Leeds is a TM - who is, surprise surprise, autistic.

I can't talk to dd about the wider topic though as she literally weeps if I do. So we have agreed not to discuss it.

The girls involved are all very sweet, kind and well-meaning. They're just not really up on feminist analysis.

What subjects are they studying? I hope not Biology/Medicine/Nursing.