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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Leeds now

126 replies

Igneococcus · 30/10/2021 07:24

Students and staff demand their vice-chancellor and senior employees to include preferred pronouns:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c62b8978-38ea-11ec-b83a-bd8490b9f48d?shareToken=36bc0edfe8d32becd4adb61ef97d8822

OP posts:
KittenKong · 30/10/2021 11:50

What about brat privilege? That’s a thing.

ArabellaScott · 30/10/2021 11:53

@KittenKong

On twitter... and the people that I have met who went to Leeds are very intelligent, smart and logical thinking people - when did they start doing courses in TellyTubby studies?
Grin
xxyzz · 30/10/2021 11:53

What does my head in here is particularly those women who clearly understand and care deeply about women's oppression, based on our biology and reproductive capacity, but who ^still^ go around aiming TWAW.

Stella Creasy is a case in point - in the papers today for complaining about discrimination against pregnant MPs and MPs on maternity leave. But simultaneously has a definition of women that includes men.

Confused
ArabellaScott · 30/10/2021 11:56

Outstanding post, CharlieParley.

“Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of Communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of Communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”

That's chilling.

toofer · 30/10/2021 12:05

@Violetparis

This request isn't just happening in universities. I work for a big public sector organisation, on a staff meeting on Teams someone put in the chat a request for the speakers/senior leads to declare their pronouns at the start of team meetings as it was a good way to show inclusivity. It got about 20 likes, the most popular posts in chat in Teams staff meetings get a few hundred. I can see this escalting.
They suggested this where I work. I instantly poured cold water on it. Not resurfaced yet.

If asked to, I would make it clear how uncomfortable I was with a move which would put women at a disadvantage in the workplace, as there is vast amounts of research showing that where colleagues, clients, employers, funders etc know the sex of the people they're dealing with, they treat women worse on average.

This is why applications for many things are now sex blind, to prevent this well-known unconscious bias affecting women's chances.

I don't announce my ethnicity or disability status say, in support of ethnic minorities or disabled people, so why should my signature have to be used to show support for trans people only?

Plus my family were forced to wear yellow stars to make their ethnicity public. I am very strongly against forcing people to reveal private personal info full stop.

ViceLikeBlip · 30/10/2021 12:07

(in response to the trans day of awareness) I still don't understand how there can be such a thing as transphobic hate crimes if TWAW? Whoever is recording that these victims are TW rather than just "women" is causing them further literal violence.

(disclaimer: I of course absolutely do believe that transphobic hate crimes exist, and that they're completely unacceptable. This is partly why I think we must keep the distinction that TWATW rather than TWAW-anything else would be a complete denial of a person's whole lived experienced)

FrancescaContini · 30/10/2021 12:07

“Micro insults” 😆🤷‍♀️

ViceLikeBlip · 30/10/2021 12:08

*trans day of remembrance?

toofer · 30/10/2021 12:12

@NecessaryScene

Why is this THE thing that’s causing so much mania? If it was climate change I’d completely understand, but fucking pronouns again. I honestly don’t understand.

Educate yourself by watching this:

Great video.

But it needs an extension - we need the shots of protesters at various recent women's rights conferences tacked on the end. Like the recent one involving shouting misogynist insults at women through a megaphone or previous ones of protesters blocking doors, with violent signs etc.

Always find that show well how vulnerable the protesters are. Because only vulnerable people shout insults through a megaphone at people half their size, or hold signs threatening sexualised violence against people whose views they disagree with.

WomaninBoots · 30/10/2021 12:15

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

My pronouns are/Blessed be the fruit/may the Lord open

xxyzz · 30/10/2021 12:21

I have a dd at Leeds uni. This story makes me despair somewhat.

Dd was already pretty TWAW when she went. One of her best friends at Leeds is a TM - who is, surprise surprise, autistic.

I can't talk to dd about the wider topic though as she literally weeps if I do. So we have agreed not to discuss it. Confused

The girls involved are all very sweet, kind and well-meaning. They're just not really up on feminist analysis.

HeddaAga · 30/10/2021 12:21

Women have nothing to gain in the workplace from using their preferred pronouns all the time. The only people who stand to gain are those people who seek validation from being considered women. MRAs gonna MRA while women just try and get on with their work. It's a relentless, time wasting, ego trip.

"Gender Inequality: What happened when a man and woman switched names at work for a week
A man realised women are treated differently in the workplace after he accidentally signed off on emails using his female co-worker's signature"

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gender-inequality-man-woman-switch-names-week-martin-schneider-nicky-knacks-pay-gap-a7622201.html

andyoldlabour · 30/10/2021 12:22

NecessaryScene

Unbelievable video, highlighting the calibre of politicians in the UK, quite depressing in a way.
David Lammy actually said - "One in four transgender people commit suicide", not attempt, but actually commitShock

Igneococcus · 30/10/2021 12:24

Somebody asked me via PM to share this link, she doesn't want to do it herself for personal reasons:

warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/academy/activities/learningcircles/transqueerpedagogies/queeringuniversity/projects/thepronounspledge/

OP posts:
FlibbertyGiblets · 30/10/2021 13:04

The associated glossary has no entry for woman, how surprising.
warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/academy/activities/learningcircles/transqueerpedagogies/lgbtquaterminology/

Whitefire · 30/10/2021 13:11

@ViceLikeBlip

*trans day of remembrance?
Yes, one day a year to remember all those in the UK killed that year because they are trans, but there isn't any so they remember those killed worldwide, which ends up focusing on Brazil, but the numbers are greatly skewed as most victims are sex workers which is very unsafe especially in Brazil.

Of course it is right for the community to have an opportunity to reflect, but it just feeds into "the most oppressed ever" narrative.

Cailleach1 · 30/10/2021 13:58

It is like Mao's China, or Stalin's Russia. The only clue to a more advanced era is that the denouncement's are mainly happening digitally rather than in the streets.

RoyalCorgi · 30/10/2021 14:00

Vice-chancellors and other senior managers need to start standing up to this kind of intimidation. I would have been very glad to see those students who bullied Kathleen Stock being sent down.

A lot of us have come to the realisation that this isn't some marginalised group, but a cohort of white, heterosexual, middle-class men who have decided to don the costume of most oppressed group. And they are aided and abetted by a bunch of women too gullible to understand what's going on. Universities need to stamp down on this hard, and fast.

WarriorN · 30/10/2021 14:07

[quote Igneococcus]Somebody asked me via PM to share this link, she doesn't want to do it herself for personal reasons:

warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/academy/activities/learningcircles/transqueerpedagogies/queeringuniversity/projects/thepronounspledge/[/quote]
Jesus

CatsOperatingInGangs · 30/10/2021 14:54

@KittenKong

On twitter... and the people that I have met who went to Leeds are very intelligent, smart and logical thinking people - when did they start doing courses in TellyTubby studies?
This is fucking brilliant

Put wood int’ole is often used in this house.

FrancescaContini · 30/10/2021 15:01

Another one my DC won’t be applying to…..

FrancescaContini · 30/10/2021 15:03

[quote Igneococcus]Somebody asked me via PM to share this link, she doesn't want to do it herself for personal reasons:

warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/academy/activities/learningcircles/transqueerpedagogies/queeringuniversity/projects/thepronounspledge/[/quote]
And yet another one to cross off the list.

This reads like a parody….pronouns pledge??! Have these people ever had anything serious to worry about in life??

FrancescaContini · 30/10/2021 15:09

@WomaninBoots

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

My pronouns are/Blessed be the fruit/may the Lord open

Excellent article - thanks
KimikosNightmare · 30/10/2021 15:10

object referring to the Yogyakarta principles

I think it's fair to say that when that was first suggested as a response there was an element of bad faith ( ha- gotcha with your own game !). But the dictatorial and authoritarian language in that demand now makes invoking the Yogyakarta principles a valid option made in good faith.

I've yet to see pronouns in any work emails- even ones from universities- long may that continue.

bordersmidgebites · 30/10/2021 15:12

Unfortunately I have seen them

Bristol and Cambridge unis so far

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