Changing sex is impossible

[Basicbitch40]

An xy person can never become an xx person and surely that's obvious. So why do so many people believe that you can change sex? I'm baffled.

I don't think they actually really believe you can change so they?

Because they bunked off their biology class.

I don't think they actually really believe you can change so they?

Unfortunately I think some do and as it is almost illegal to say what the OP has said, how are children supposed to know different?

My kids know. I have reinforced what dear Professor Winston said on question time. It’s in every nucleus of every cell in your body.

Probably they think taking hormones counts as changing your sex? No idea what that would make women who are on hormonal contraception or HRT though - twice as womanly? No one who thinks it can have thought it through to any great extent.

@TuftyMarmoset there is not a lot of critical thinking no. James Watson and Francis Crick will be appalled.

@Blessex And Rosalind Franklin!

It was a thread just like this which made me GC, I came to the feminism board after hearing it derided elsewhere and realised that some people genuinely believe/argue you can change sex!

Some do believe it. I read about someone who did one of those dna ancestors tests and was gutted to see their dna as XY and wanted to know if anyone did a trans specific one

[quote TuftyMarmoset]@Blessex And Rosalind Franklin![/quote]
Thank you!

Sex is binary: Scientists speak up for the empirical reality of biological sex
This article, co-authored by Dr Colin Wright (evolutionary biologist at Penn State, USA) and Dr Emma Hilton (developmental biologist at the University of Manchester, UK), looks at claims that sex is a spectrum, not a binary. The full article was published in the Wall Street Journal on 13th February 2020.
fairplayforwomen.com/scientistsspeak/

Biological sex differences: bones & muscles
fairplayforwomen.com/biological-sex-differences/

Dr Emma Hilton explains sex differences

So why do so many people believe that you can change sex?

Partly because you can't.

If we could do this, you would see an actual conflict between the men who had changed sex and those who hadn't. It would be like the "tru trans" thing but worse.

And you would have sensible objective rules about how to handle sex changes. It's because we can't do it that we don't know how to handle claims of having done it. We try to pretend that there never was a sex change and that "they were always that sex". Which is where the whole thing disintegrates.

If we could change sex, then we'd try to slot in the trans with the actual sex-changers, subject to their rules. Any claims to somehow get more rights than sex-changers - a pretence of no sex change - would be self-evidently ridiculous.

Obviously a man who had sex-changed wouldn't compete in natal women's sports, for example, so why would a trans male think they should? It wouldn't get anywhere.

They like to talk about clownfish - imagine the fun with trans clownfish versus those who had changed sex. You'd be having endless arguments about what it meant to "change sex" and why the trans clownfish were no different from the sex-changed clownfish.

But because no-one has done it, there's no real pushback to the claim. (Apart from women, obviously, but who cares about them).

@NecessaryScene

So why do so many people believe that you can change sex?

Partly because you can't.

If we could do this, you would see an actual conflict between the men who had changed sex and those who hadn't. It would be like the "tru trans" thing but worse.

And you would have sensible objective rules about how to handle sex changes. It's because we can't do it that we don't know how to handle claims of having done it. We try to pretend that there never was a sex change and that "they were always that sex". Which is where the whole thing disintegrates.

If we could change sex, then we'd try to slot in the trans with the actual sex-changers, subject to their rules. Any claims to somehow get more rights than sex-changers - a pretence of no sex change - would be self-evidently ridiculous.

Obviously a man who had sex-changed wouldn't compete in natal women's sports, for example, so why would a trans male think they should? It wouldn't get anywhere.

They like to talk about clownfish - imagine the fun with trans clownfish versus those who had changed sex. You'd be having endless arguments about what it meant to "change sex" and why the trans clownfish were no different from the sex-changed clownfish.

But because no-one has done it, there's no real pushback to the claim. (Apart from women, obviously, but who cares about them).

Yes. Apply reductio ad adsurdem and it soon becomes apparent that the original proposition, i.e. that humans can change sex, is wrong.

For me the most coherent explanation for this belief stems from the idea that rather than being a reproductive class, sex is just a collection of attibributes (for women: vagina, breasts etc), which sometimes (but not always) includes aspects of brain/mind/personality etc. The idea is that because you can change some of these attributes, then once you have acquired enough it would be absurd to suggest that you are not woman. For many the important attribute is the inner feeling, so if you have that you are (all/most?) of the way there, but even for those who do not believe in gender identity, it is felt that the more womanly attributes you collected it is possible to “become” a woman.

This approach ignores/doesn’t accept the fact that the essence of sex is the reproductive class, which is why our genitalia - because of their intended function - are our primary sexual characteristics. Secondary characteristics (including any debunked ideas of brain sex) are just that, secondary.

It is about how babies are made.

For me there’s an innate knowledge and I just can’t override it. I know god doesn’t exist and that you can’t actually change sex. That may upset others but for me it’s not a “belief” I just deep down know those things are reality. I would love to believe in god but just can’t. Same with gender ideology. It just isn’t true.

MsTSwift, the analogy with God is not a good one, as millions of Christians have had direct experience of the presence of God, Jesus was a real person, and there are eye witness accounts of His resurrection, recorded by, amongst others, St Paul.
Perhaps flat Earthers are a better comparison, where the belief is demonstrably false. You cannot disprove the existence of God.

Some of this is down to the influence of postmodernismwhere language no longer refers to an object but to whatever a person decides it means. The world is as I want it to be and if you challenge that then you are denying me. Thus pushback. www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy

It is because sex is a spectrum, innit.

We have had quite a few posters that have tried to convince us that they have not changed sex because they were always ‘that’ sex they just modified their bodies to match.

Or that they have adjusted their hormonal ‘sex’, the appearance of their secondary sex characteristics etc so therefore they have changed more that half of the sex markers of the body so that counts as being able to call themselves the opposite sex.

But there is a large group also denying that others ARE saying they can change sex. Which is gaslighting.

Because so many people in public positions are keen to suggest you can. Keir Starmer, Nicola Sturgeon, Ed Davey etc - muppets!

Boris Johnson and the Tories may be so so awful in lots of ways but at least they don’t parrot TWAW etc.

But there is a large group also denying that others ARE saying they can change sex. Which is gaslighting.

Indeed. And this is the group doing one of: denying that sex is important/arguing that the basis of discrimination/violence against women is gender not sex; arguing that sex is a spectrum/there are many sexes; arguing that sex is irrelevant if someone passes as the opposite sex; arguing that sex is immaterial when considered against their declared gender identity; or arguing that sex is just too complicated and it is impossible to know anyone's sex.

So why do so many people believe that you can change sex?

Because they are enjoying the power it gives them knowing if they denounce someone in authority for ‘wrongthink’ that person will lose their job.
They enjoy adding to the witch-hunt of successful woman such as JK Rowling and making her life a misery and presumably that of her children.
They would’ve made good Stasi officers.

There's a lot of misinformation in schools and some families get a surprising amount of their 'up-to-date' knowledge from children.

And I agree with PPs that some of this confusion and denial and counter-denial creates so much noise that people think it's impossible to look into and that creates uncertainty where none should exist.

They don't believe it
They have just decided that it doesn't matter and that biological sex is not relevant in determining what your biological sex is.

That and thinking gender is anything other than stereotypical bullshit.

I was soeaking to someone yesterday who obviously knows people can’t change sex but thinks there is a sweet spot where the person concerned has had all the surgery and is on hormones etc

It was quite a good discussion even though we obviously disagreed on some things….what was ‘fair’ in women’s sports for example

Speaking…..😡