Boris Johnson backs Kathleen Stock and LGB Alliance in trans rights row

[Igneococcus]

Times article:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bcd547fc-3281-11ec-820f-e2be9b2cb5fd?shareToken=5c3a9e0bca841aaf9e00e4221e557a2f

Just had a scan of the comments and pretty much mirrors the views on here

@Waitwhat23

If it's just a generic letter, filled out by someone tasked to 'fill in the blanks' and isn't a show of support in some even vague way, it shows an extraordinary lack of knowledge by the person filling in the blanks about the current situation at the University of Sussex and the continual attacks against the charitable status of the LGB Alliance by lobbying groups with an axe to grind. A strange stage of affairs from people working in the political area. Are TRA's genuinely claiming that this letter was basically sent out by accident?

There is an article in the DM today which contains the following lines:

Last night, the group said it had also been invited to a meeting in Downing Street, where members had been told they had a lot of support really high up.

Asked about the letter, the PM’s spokesman said: The Government is clear that biology matters and there are different health needs between the sexes.

Not a 'generic' letter methinks.

Link to the letter mentioned by RedDogsBeg :

Last night, the group said it had also been invited to a meeting in Downing Street, where members had been told they had a lot of support really high up.

Asked about the letter, the PM’s spokesman said: ‘The Government is clear that biology matters and there are different health needs between the sexes.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10118587/Boris-Johnson-wades-culture-war-backing-controversial-LGB-Alliance-group.html

BJ knows exactly what he is doing.

My guess is that they are more worried about the stranglehold a lobbying organisation has on decision making. The influence lobby groups, not just Stonewall, have on Government has long been predicted to be the next big scandal.

My guess is that Stonewall's overreach is very convenient. This can addressed by tightening rules for all lobby organisations (including those who employ former Tory and Labour PMs.)

90 odd percent of the British public will oppose having natal men on female hospital wards, prisons, sport etc. The vast majority will oppose giving life altering drugs to young healthy, but possibly confused, teenagers. Most will support the idea of a charity that works to protect same sex attracted people. And equally will think that Sussex students, with the opportunities thay are being given, are very wrong to attack Prof Stock.

This is not about Labour or Conservative. This is about people being one, or all, of: sensible, scientific, concerned about safeguarding and protecting the vulnerable, and socially conservative.

The Conservatives are wary of being caught on the wrong side of any LGBT debate and being labelled the nasty party. Initally it was just backbencher David TC Davis MP who put his head above the parapet and received complaints and more. Stonewall continued overplaying their hand, and BJ has a strong majority. Liz and Kemi have tested the waters, following in the footsteps of Maya etc. Keir has managed to look silly and weak by espousing Labour's pro Stonewall line. Time for BJ to wade in and say what almost everyone is thinking.

Like him or not, it is good when any politician pursues sensible policies that reflect public thinking. More bizarre that Labour, along with a whole raft of major private and public organisations, cannot manage this.

I dont think Carrie is "pro Stonewall". I am sure she, like most people, opposes discrimination, whether against LGB and T people, women, the disabled, people of different races, religions or creeds and so on. Stonewall's agenda has been more than that. Seeking the prioritisation of one group of the needs of others. I think it was a masterstroke to have Carrie, who is not a member of the Government, speak at the Stonewall meeting during the conference. The Tories avoided having LGBT issues dominate the headlines, and Carrie very much focused on the LGB.

One redeeming feature of BJ can be that he is lazy, and relies heavily on advisors. Whoever in No 10 is advising him on this is clearly onside.

One redeeming feature of BJ can be that he is lazy, and relies heavily on advisors. Whoever in No 10 is advising him on this is clearly onside.

I hope you're correct. Amidst the general investigation, I can only trust that somebody is going to extirpate all the problematic categories and alterations to policy that have taken root in the NHS.

Whatever you think of Boris, he listens to his advisors, and I'm willing to bet that focus groups (which politicians generally take note of), are consistently dismayed by the TWAW line of all the other parties. The Cons have clearly twigged at this point that being a counterpoint to that narrative has/will continue to serve them very well at the ballot box.

I think this whole business has been a gift to the Tories. Once they had the sense to pull back from self-ID, they realised that this would be a fantastic stick to beat Labour with. If you look at what's happening with Kathleen Stock, with Stonewall, with the LGBA etc it's perfectly obvious that a large chunk of the public is deeply unhappy with the idea of biological males on female wards, in women's prisons, competing in women's sports etc. Most people will also feel very unhappy about the intimidation of Professor Stock and other female academics.

Because Labour has been spectacularly useless on this, and has even failed to defend one of its own MPs, Rosie Duffield, from the bullies, it opens up a perfect opportunity for the Tories to present themselves as the party both of free speech and of women's rights. I don't imagine the Tories actually care that much about free speech (they are inconsistent on the issue at best) but they are now able to look good by very obviously and publicly doing all the things that Labour isn't doing. The very public show of support for the LGBA - coming so soon after the appalling letter from Taiwo Owatemi - is an example of this. It's a fantastic endorsement for LGBA, and, I imagine, a bitter blow for Stonewall.

It's a fantastic endorsement for LGBA, and, I imagine, a bitter blow for Stonewall.

I just hope it translates into Stonewall's removal from their hugely influential position in public life. That a lobby group with a pernicious agenda that isn't well supported by the public has such a hold on both public and private institutions is an outrage. The podcast by Stephen Nolan has finally put the issue centre stage.

So, no errors made.

Looking forward to Catherina telling us another well thought through reason why there is no way the majority support women’s rights while agreeing trans people need their own rights that don’t cause harm to women’s rights.

Or will it be the continued ignoring the truth because [insert emotive reason here].

I too am surprised Boris took so long to see the advantage in supporting women and gay people in this matter. As Heseltine says of him ' He waits to see where the crowd is heading , then runs to the front.' And nobody ever accused him of not knowing what a woman is.

I'm 0 for 2 in my expectations as to what would happen in the last 3 days (Margaret Atwood and Boris Johnson's office).

I couldn't be more delighted.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

I'm 0 for 2 in my expectations as to what would happen in the last 3 days (Margaret Atwood and Boris Johnson's office).

I couldn't be more delighted.

I see BJ as opportunistic, but many amongst the Tory back benches will be relieved. They are women or have wives, or female partners, or mothers or daughters. Or perhaps they are gay and unhappy about the capture of Stonewall.

I think Keir ducked because he has enough on his plate dealing with Momentum, and does not want the distraction of a full out, and largely generational, culture war.

BJ cannot believe his luck. I think the Sajid Javid quotes following Stamer's cervix problems at the Labour conference
“total denial of scientific facts” “And he wants to run the NHS” indicate of the line the Tories will take.

I think Labour will have to bend...but how?

'I think Labour will have to bend...but how?'

That is entirely a problem for the Labour Party. Even before this they were telling 'red Tories' to 'get lost' so some of us did.

'If you ignore my sex, don't expect my x'.

Just wondering, wasn't this foreshadowed by Cummings' tweet?

@Bellendejour

Look I never expected to be here either. None of us did. My parents work/worked for the nhs. I’ve been labour through everyone, milliband, corbyn everyone. Voting Tory is an anathema to me, and sorry to get excited and silly and joke about shagging frogs. BUT I want to live. I want my daughter to live. I want girls and women to live and be proud and free to be daughters and women and not be scared to ever speak up for ourselves or share how we feel. I want children and teens to get the best possible care, and not mutilate themselves and make themselves infertile and forever patients and still be fucking miserable. I want women to have their own spaces and be safe, or as safe as we can be. If I have to vote for someone I wouldn’t ever normally countenance well that isn’t even on me, that’s on labour, greens and Lib Dem’s for abandoning us and forcing us to choose between our personal politics and our actual existence. I know we are all on the same page with those things. Maybe this will wake the other parties up, and I hope so. But if it doesn’t I would rather vote Tory than against women.

Thank you for putting into words exactly how I feel.

What gets me is how Labour could get it so wrong. It was obvious two years ago where this would end .. Labour didn't just fall into a trap they jumped into it head first. They still don't seem to get it (apart from Rosie). I'm sure there's lots of whispering behind closed doors but that's no use. They are crap at politics. I think they just don't understand the public, the tories do and tap into it. I don't for a minute think Boris cares about women, but he understands how politics work.
And I don't think it gets said enough, but all those letters to MPs, the crowdfunders, women plugging away, it matters and they notice.

@dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

I am so pleased to hear this....I know LGB Alliance and Stonewall were both at the recent Tory party conference. I would expect Johnson to support free speech and in speaking out on this, it makes me feel better about the Tories continuing to stand firm against self-id and generally getting the worst stuff rolled back. I was a bit miffed when he said 'people with endometriosis' with regard to poor David Amess but given the tragedy not appropriate for me to put on a thread.

Probably BJ doesn't realise that it's women who have endo.

@Mollyollydolly

What gets me is how Labour could get it so wrong. It was obvious two years ago where this would end .. Labour didn't just fall into a trap they jumped into it head first. They still don't seem to get it (apart from Rosie). I'm sure there's lots of whispering behind closed doors but that's no use. They are crap at politics. I think they just don't understand the public, the tories do and tap into it. I don't for a minute think Boris cares about women, but he understands how politics work. And I don't think it gets said enough, but all those letters to MPs, the crowdfunders, women plugging away, it matters and they notice.

Same thoughts here, Labour had an open goal to portray the Tories as the 'nasty anti-women' party because the horrors with this ideology, as in Karen White et al, have played out under a Conservative Government.

Labour could, and should, have hammered the points of the removal of safety, dignity and privacy for women, the dehumanisation and demonisation of women, the threat to women's employment if they speak out, the capture of Government organisations, the Police and the NHS and, most importantly, the exclusion of vulnerable, traumatised women and religious immigrant women from the female only spaces and services they should be able to access without fear. Instead Labour doubled down and as a result are a lost cause.

My guess is that they are more worried about the stranglehold a lobbying organisation has on decision making. The influence lobby groups, not just Stonewall, have on Government has long been predicted to be the next big scandal.

That's a really interesting point and I think you are likely right.

So good to see a misogynist, racist, homophobic, islamophobic serial adulterer who cheated on his wife while she was getting treatment for cancer being lauded on these pages for his support for ... well not sure what LGBA do for LGB people... which is why it fits so well... of course!

@DisgustedofManchester

So good to see a misogynist, racist, homophobic, islamophobic serial adulterer who cheated on his wife while she was getting treatment for cancer being lauded on these pages for his support for ... well not sure what LGBA do for LGB people... which is why it fits so well... of course!

Of course you wouldn't appreciate it, Disgusted, even though I agree with your summary of Boris, but then you do not think same sex attraction should be same sex attracted.

@DisgustedofManchester

So good to see a misogynist, racist, homophobic, islamophobic serial adulterer who cheated on his wife while she was getting treatment for cancer being lauded on these pages for his support for ... well not sure what LGBA do for LGB people... which is why it fits so well... of course!

You could definitely recite that to BJ to the accompaniment of tambourines while you call upon him to repent.

Blimey, Boris yesterday, Vladimir today, if Kim Jong Un and the Ayatollah Khamenei come on board, I will have to stock up on some strong stuff.
I may even ask myself