Please don't use the greeting "Hi ladies"

[MareofBeasttown]

I am a member of a women's social group which is friendly and inclusive. Non-binary people are also allowed to join and this is mentioned on the website. A member is now suggesting that the word 'women' in the group's name should be taken out and it be changed to "women and enby". She is also arguing that greetings like "Hi Ladies" should not be used. Instead, she suggests" Hi Ladies and Enbies". What do people think?

What is an enby?

Non binary can be men or women. You may as well just have a mixed sex group. Otherwise it will just fill up with special people who are a little bit lady one day and a little bit bloke the next... Non binary really is non sense....

Hello Ladies and Tobie.

This is going to sound catty, but I believe a lot of it is attention seeking. I can't think of any other rational explanation for it. For instance, one of my acquaintances recently came out as non binary (which of course eventually necessitated in her never speaking to me again, because I have nasty gender critical thoughts and this makes her 'doubt' her own identity when she is around me) and she insists that her pronouns are she/her. And yet she made it an absolute rule that no one in her presence was to use language like 'hey ladies', or 'girls'. She was very upset at me jokingly using the phrase 'time to pull up your big girl pants', which apparently insinuated she was female! And yet it is perfectly fine for her to have feminine pronouns, and to present as hyper feminine with nail polish, dresses, long blond hair and so on.

I just find the whole thing very confusing. I am gender non conforming, and I really don't understand why she is fine with being addressed as 'she', she is fine with conforming to standard feminine grooming and yet she draws the line at someone texting the group with phrases like 'hi there gals!' It is nonsensical.

@doublemonkey

My first thought was 'fuck right off'.

This was also my second and third thought.

What is an enby?!

@Summerfun54321

“Alright you bunch of cunts” would be suitable for a group of vagina havers. But maybe a little too informal?

[grin[

[grinfail[

@ElvisPresleyHadABaby

What is an enby?!

Enby is a way of writing NB (short for non-binary).

@Summerfun54321

“Alright you bunch of cunts” would be suitable for a group of vagina havers. But maybe a little too informal?

I'm actually pissing myself laughing at that greeting. I dare you ...

Pissing oneself laughing is of course a risk us vagina havers experience in later life 😂

@Summerfun54321

“Alright you bunch of cunts” would be suitable for a group of vagina havers. But maybe a little too informal?

😂

“Alright you bunch of cunts”

I vote we have this rolled out everywhere as a suitably inclusive and all-encompassing greeting.

@ArabellaScott

Esther has the correct response to this request.

mobile.twitter.com/OkBiology/status/1450237190995382280

I just kept mum

Steady.

I'm so happy to see people reacting to this with the respect it deserves 😆

@WeeBisom

This is going to sound catty, but I believe a lot of it is attention seeking. I can't think of any other rational explanation for it. For instance, one of my acquaintances recently came out as non binary (which of course eventually necessitated in her never speaking to me again, because I have nasty gender critical thoughts and this makes her 'doubt' her own identity when she is around me) and she insists that her pronouns are she/her. And yet she made it an absolute rule that no one in her presence was to use language like 'hey ladies', or 'girls'. She was very upset at me jokingly using the phrase 'time to pull up your big girl pants', which apparently insinuated she was female! And yet it is perfectly fine for her to have feminine pronouns, and to present as hyper feminine with nail polish, dresses, long blond hair and so on.

I just find the whole thing very confusing. I am gender non conforming, and I really don't understand why she is fine with being addressed as 'she', she is fine with conforming to standard feminine grooming and yet she draws the line at someone texting the group with phrases like 'hi there gals!' It is nonsensical.

It's all bollocks really, isn't it?

"cervix haver"? really?

but surely a TransWoman doesn't have a cervix?

What's wrong with the word 'ladies'?

Is 'gentlemen' ok?

Tis bollocks. Made up stuff.

So it's women, transwomen, enbies(sex unspecified)...

I believe the Green Party has the label this group is looking for. 'Non-men'.

Hi Ladies" should not be used

Good advice in any situation.

Just that the enby person has asked that this term not be used in general

It’s tempting to tell them to piss off. This person sounds like a total troublemaker. Ignore them. If they mention it again, tell them that you’re all using “ladies/women/girls” as sex-based terms, which is what they are and that they have nothing to do with ‘gender’.

Or, take a leaf out of their book and tell them their request has made you “feel unsafe”.

Don’t indulge this crap. They won’t stop here and they’ll never be satisfied.

I think people should just stop trying to police other people's language. Life is difficult enough as it is without having to worry about offending someone because you've said "ladies" "girls" or used an incorrect pronoun.

OP, you said in your update that this isn’t a women’s group. It’s a mixed sex group that includes male bodied transwomen.
Therefore the whole discussion on how to address a women’s group is moot.

@EvilEdna1

I work for a charity educating groups of adults and we are taught not to use the word ladies at all because of its classist history. I thought that was odd at the time but I am grateful years later because I use women instead and am determined to keep doing so.

My response to this is that for some women, being referred to as 'a lady' or collectively as 'ladies' is a mark of respect that they may not often get. 'Women' as a generic is fine, of course (this is a women's choir/car repair course/hairdressers)- but when the women are actually there, I think many appreciate ladies as more polite - 'have any of you ladies finished yet?' 'Stacy, please can you help this lady choose a power drill?' I think most women, especially older women would find woman/women in those examples impolite.

@doublemonkey

My first thought was 'fuck right off'.

This was also my second and third thought.

Mine too. I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face if if some fool told me they were "non binary" how ridiculous...

Maybe just change the rules so that narcissists non binaries are not welcome anymore, female only. Seems simpler.

FFS