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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Maya back in court tomorrow (20th Oct)

130 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/10/2021 19:11

hiyamaya.net/2021/10/19/gendered-intelligence-trains-judges-in-secret-i-am-going-to-court-to-try-to-break-the-secrecy/

Training for judges is carried out by the Judicial College, this training is said to be “by judges, for judges”. But in 2018 Judge Sian Davies proudly revealed in an in-house magazine for judges, that the Employment Tribunal and the Immigration Tribunal judges had received training from Gendered Intelligence.

There is no information on this training in the Judicial College’s published Review of Activities.

In March 2020 I submitted a Freedom of Information request asking dates and details of the training including:

– Cost of the training
– Contract/agreement/TORs for commissioning the training
– Copies of any presentation material and/or hand outs used
– Which judges attended the training^

The Ministry of Justice refused the request, saying that it didn’t hold the information. I asked for a review by the Judicial College. The Judicial College said it only holds information on behalf of the judiciary, and in any case is not covered by FOI and is therefore exempt from disclosure. I complained to the Information Commissioner who also agreed that the public had no right to have any information on Gendered Intelligence’s training of judges (or indeed any other lobby group training judges in secret).

Tomorrow the case goes to tribunal. I am represented in this case by barrister Naomi Cunningham.

OP posts:
Oblomov21 · 19/10/2021 20:59

I don't quite understand it all. The judges are being trained in secret?
I've read the booklet. I don't understand why it's bad.

BoreOfWhabylon · 19/10/2021 21:06

Wow! Go Maya! What a phenomenal woman.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/10/2021 21:08

The judges are being trained in all things gender by gendered intelligence. Which probably means they are being told things like misgendering is violence, gender is more important than sex etc. (See for example Maria McLachlan who was repeatedly told by the judge to refer to her male attacker as "she"). The judges are being misinformed by a lobby group, rather than being given factual impartial information. This will skew the judges thinking in any cases where the whole sex/gender thing is an issue.

OP posts:
DifficultBloodyWoman · 19/10/2021 21:14

I hadn’t heard about this so thanks for posting.

And thank you to Maya for pursuing this. It must feel like knocking your head against a brick wall at times and I could understand giving up to preserve her own sanity. But she keeps going and I am so grateful.

ArabellaScott · 19/10/2021 21:15

Maya, you are amazing.

Thank you.

Again.

Rightsraptor · 19/10/2021 21:18

Why don't we form a lobby group and train the judiciary?

NecessaryScene · 19/10/2021 21:18

I don't understand why it's bad.

For starters, it seems to be making them make staggeringly incorrect judgements which get appealed, like Maya's first-round case.

The judge there seemed to have been confused about what the law actually said, versus what some court training documents said.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/10/2021 21:23

@Oblomov21

I don't quite understand it all. The judges are being trained in secret? I've read the booklet. I don't understand why it's bad.
Thread about why the ETBB needs to be revised:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4291072-Policy-Exchange-Why-the-Equal-Treatment-Bench-Books-needs-urgent-revision

Hoardasurass · 19/10/2021 21:26

Thank you @HeronLanyon

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/10/2021 21:27

@Rightsraptor

Why don't we form a lobby group and train the judiciary?
Women don't get listened to.
OP posts:
HoardingSamphireSaurus · 19/10/2021 21:31

We need to insist we are men and demand we are listened to.

But it won't work. Despite gender being the vital ingredient men always know which people are female and can be ignored!

Oblomov21 · 19/10/2021 21:39

Trans Youth sexual health booklet, I was referring to, in the OP's linked article is 9 pages long.

The ETBB just linked is 571 pages long.

Coconutmeg · 19/10/2021 21:43

Oh wow.
This and Nolan Investigates Stonewall.
Feeling hopeful

HeronLanyon · 19/10/2021 21:47

kenn not at all appalled by ‘the trans situation’ as you have put it. More about the real difficulties witnesses and lawyers are facing giving honest evidence, whatever the personal ‘honesty’ frankly. Also judicial training. Etc etc.

allmywhat · 19/10/2021 22:05

That skeleton argument is quite a read.

The Judicial College seem to be doing something like the kind of endless “yeah but you never said I triple dare you/I had my fingers crossed behind my back” arguments I had with my brother as a kid. They’re relying on a list someone apparently forgot to update for an “opportunistic” argument that they’re not subject to FOI.

And in the process they are making it clear, or at least it’s clear once the document has spelled it all out, that they are desperate to hide something. It reeks.

I really hope Maya wins.

RainbowCrossing · 19/10/2021 23:01

Maya you're amazing HaloGinStar

BlackeyedSusan · 19/10/2021 23:04

Secret training of Judges by a lobby group and using taxpayer money to fund it is a scandal.

this sentence by red is worth repeating. clear, precise summing up of the issue.

SpindelWhorl · 19/10/2021 23:06

Gendered Intelligence 'trained' Stonewall in 2015/16, didn't they? One of their people is big in Portsmouth University?

NCBlossom · 19/10/2021 23:22

@BlackeyedSusan

Secret training of Judges by a lobby group and using taxpayer money to fund it is a scandal.

this sentence by red is worth repeating. clear, precise summing up of the issue.

Yes absolutely this.

Have any other lobby groups had access, secret or not, and influence through training for judges? This all has to be transparent.

BlackeyedSusan · 19/10/2021 23:33

all credit to RedDogsBeg for that sentence, NC. Said further upthread.

CompleteGinasaur · 19/10/2021 23:34

I was just reading another thread asking for ideas for effective tshirt slogans for consciousness raising in Tesco's (other supermarkets are available), but decided against submitting one of my favourites because it possibly wasn't specific enough. Perfect for here, though -"If you're not angry, you're not paying attention". I obviously wasn't, however, because I had no idea about this...

Thank god for Maya Forstater paying enough attention for all of us.

Datun · 19/10/2021 23:51

Maya Forstarter is one hell of a woman. Her brain is phenomenal. Her analysis of what needs dealing with and what can be put on the back burner is razor sharp.

And yes, this is an absolute fucking disgrace. I almost can't believe it. Our judges, the judiciary, have been told they must toe the transgenderism line by a fucking transgender lobby group!

How on earth do these places get and maintain their power? Why doesn't the judiciary just say nah, no thanks mate.

There's got to be something, otherwise it wouldn't be super secret, would it?

And, again, if they close ranks and say no fuck off this is super duper confidential, the press will be on it. Standby for the likes of Stephen Nolan to be massively warned off.

Hardly a day goes by where I don't go down on my knees and thank Maya Forstater for the ruling that we can now talk about this.

FindTheTruth · 20/10/2021 00:07

Our judges, the judiciary, have been told they must toe the transgenderism line by a fucking transgender lobby group!

I feel another Nolan investigates Stonewall episode coming along ...

SecondRateFrog · 20/10/2021 00:23

.

Totallydefeated · 20/10/2021 00:46

How on earth can the judiciary have the brass neck to be arguing that their ‘training’ by a partisan political outfit be kept secret?? We’re meant to be living in a democracy, FFS.

If they’ve done nothing wrong, why are they resisting Maya’s call for transparency?

Go Maya!

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