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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Maya back in court tomorrow (20th Oct)

130 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/10/2021 19:11

hiyamaya.net/2021/10/19/gendered-intelligence-trains-judges-in-secret-i-am-going-to-court-to-try-to-break-the-secrecy/

Training for judges is carried out by the Judicial College, this training is said to be “by judges, for judges”. But in 2018 Judge Sian Davies proudly revealed in an in-house magazine for judges, that the Employment Tribunal and the Immigration Tribunal judges had received training from Gendered Intelligence.

There is no information on this training in the Judicial College’s published Review of Activities.

In March 2020 I submitted a Freedom of Information request asking dates and details of the training including:

– Cost of the training
– Contract/agreement/TORs for commissioning the training
– Copies of any presentation material and/or hand outs used
– Which judges attended the training^

The Ministry of Justice refused the request, saying that it didn’t hold the information. I asked for a review by the Judicial College. The Judicial College said it only holds information on behalf of the judiciary, and in any case is not covered by FOI and is therefore exempt from disclosure. I complained to the Information Commissioner who also agreed that the public had no right to have any information on Gendered Intelligence’s training of judges (or indeed any other lobby group training judges in secret).

Tomorrow the case goes to tribunal. I am represented in this case by barrister Naomi Cunningham.

OP posts:
LaetitiaASD · 20/10/2021 12:05

I wonder who the Tribunal members are.

In my work I get involved in Tribunals and am aware of a reasonably recent case which has set a precedent. When I googled the key Tribunal member I was shocked at how his experience was only tangentially relevant. I do not wish to reveal the real industry / story, but to try to draw a parallel - imagine a medical Tribunal discussing whether the lung cancer treatment given to an 80 year old was appropriate, and the medical expert on the panel specialized in bone diseases in children.

HeronLanyon · 20/10/2021 12:08

Thanks for live tweet feed. This is really important.

HeronLanyon · 20/10/2021 12:09

Tribunal identified at top of tweet. I know two of them !

Datun · 20/10/2021 12:19

Placemarking. Because I'm pretty certain, looking at that thread, that I won't understand a word.

SpindelWhorl · 20/10/2021 12:23

The Judicial College witness AW says 'I don't know' a lot.

So the Judicial College is arguing it's not a public body subject to FoI regarding its role training judges, and that MoJ is the public body that's FoI-able?

Oblomov21 · 20/10/2021 12:28

Amelia Wright, Executive Director of the Judicial College.

Is the witness.

Oblomov21 · 20/10/2021 12:29

Going to say the exact same thing.

AW says 'I don't know' a lot!

Oblomov21 · 20/10/2021 12:32

Training of the judiciary.
Says so in her intro / job description.

Is that your job?

I don't know!

JurassickJay · 20/10/2021 12:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Oblomov21 · 20/10/2021 12:32

Here

Maya back in court tomorrow (20th Oct)
Oblomov21 · 20/10/2021 12:37

I agree. I wish there was a crowd funder. For Maya. I contributed to the last one, and would like to again.

HeronLanyon · 20/10/2021 12:54

Good god what has become of us ! I’ve been involved in the training of advocates and the judiciary in the Maldives in China and in South Africa. All was 100% transparent and content was about ore existing statutory rules of evidence/police codes operating in the uk etc. All had to be authorised and I was checked out rigorously - experience and ability to deliver really quite him drum content.

SpindelWhorl · 20/10/2021 12:57

I'm glad that Maya is throwing some sunlight on this appalling situation, @JurassickJay. It's absolutely scandalous that our judges are being trained by an extremely controversial outfit.

JoanOgden · 20/10/2021 12:58

I don't know why there is no crowdfunder, but as the barrister (Naomi Cunningham) runs Sex Matters with Maya, they may have felt it was inappropriate.

Am sure a donation to Sex Matters would be gratefully received! They are doing important work here.

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 20/10/2021 13:05

I am thinking of you Maya and your bravery and tenacity. You are fabulous and let's hope justice finally prevails.

SpindelWhorl · 20/10/2021 13:07

I looked for and found the in-house magazine btw with the article about the 'training'. Click on the link on the right to the p 10 article by Judge Sian Davies.

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/tribunals-journal-edition3-2018.pdf

Not a single fucking thing about conflicts of rights, and how women will be impacted; plus the usual emotive language and dodgy statistics & terminology.

And don't get me started on that bloody 'Equal Treatment Bench Book'.

When are the EHRC going to get a grip on this festering shit?

Thank you for the sunlight, Maya.

SpindelWhorl · 20/10/2021 13:11

@JoanOgden

I don't know why there is no crowdfunder, but as the barrister (Naomi Cunningham) runs Sex Matters with Maya, they may have felt it was inappropriate.

Am sure a donation to Sex Matters would be gratefully received! They are doing important work here.

I think they know that they may not 'technically' win this one, but are doing it rightly to draw attention to what's been happening and how appalling it is.

It has certainly opened my eyes even wider, and I thought they were already at full-on wide-eyed gawp status.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/10/2021 13:11

Don't think this has been linked but here's an excellent analysis of the conflict of interests and dangers of this regulatory capture of the judiciary by trans lobby - written by a barrister, Thomas Chacko:

policyexchange.org.uk/author/thomaschacko/

SpindelWhorl · 20/10/2021 13:17

[quote MrsOvertonsWindow]Don't think this has been linked but here's an excellent analysis of the conflict of interests and dangers of this regulatory capture of the judiciary by trans lobby - written by a barrister, Thomas Chacko:

policyexchange.org.uk/author/thomaschacko/[/quote]
That looks interesting - I'll have a look now, thanks.

RedDogsBeg · 20/10/2021 13:19

An excerpt:

Judges found the session was of considerable interest and appreciated the opportunity to ask questions on a sensitive topic in a safe environment(my bold)

Ffs beam me up Scotty, these people are Judges.

SpindelWhorl · 20/10/2021 13:25

Oh god it reminds me of PC Gul when he was waffling on to Harry the Owl about gendered foetus brains and said proudly, "I've had the training".

(We use that as a joke in our house now, when someone has said something spectacularly stupid. Have you had the training? )

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 20/10/2021 13:28

@RedDogsBeg

An excerpt:

Judges found the session was of considerable interest and appreciated the opportunity to ask questions on a sensitive topic in a safe environment(my bold)

Ffs beam me up Scotty, these people are Judges.

Do they not understand how this undermines the public's confidence in their critical thinking skills? Unless the GI training they received was very different to that which we normally get wind of - and I'd take large bets against it given that the erroneous statistics turned up in J Tayler's ruling against Maya (overturned on appeal).
SpindelWhorl · 20/10/2021 13:41

Re the Chacko piece, I'm reading the foreward by Charles Wide QC former Senior Circuit Judge sitting at the Old Bailey.

He writes,

It is hard to avoid the impression that, in relation to what is ‘acceptable’ terminology, the ETBB has taken its tone from activists.

The judges' Judicial College should be fucking ashamed of this travesty. Wide further notes,

The Judicial College has refused to disclose the identities of the experts and organisations which have contributed to the preparation of the ETBB

This Bench Book affects us all. It affects the justice we're all allowed to have. But we're not allowed to know anything about the shady activists who pushed its contents on to the judiciary.

Maya's definitely mining a rich seam here.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 20/10/2021 13:41

Vaclav Havel, 1978 has some prescient observations about mantras and the unthinking adoption of an ideology and the true cost of the absolution that it confers.

In an era when metaphysical and existential certainties are in a state of crisis, when people are being uprooted and alienated and are losing their sense of what this world means, this ideology inevitably has a certain hypnotic charm. To wandering humankind it offers an immediately available home: all one has to do is accept it, and suddenly everything becomes clear once more, life takes on new meaning, and all mysteries, unanswered questions, anxiety, and loneliness vanish. Of course, one pays dearly for this low-rent home: the price is abdication of one’ s own reason, conscience, and responsibility, for an essential aspect of this ideology is the consignment of reason and conscience to a higher authority.

hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/the-power-of-the-powerless-vaclav-havel-2011-12-23