Harrop MPTS Hearing

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I thought this may be of interest:

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-adrian-harrop-nov-21

The tribunal will inquire into the allegation that from 10 May 2018 to 23 November 2019, Dr Harrop inappropriately used his Twitter account to post tweets that were offensive and/or insulting and/or inappropriate in nature and some of which were intended to intimidate.

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

I wonder what Harrop's barrister is thinking right now.

Thank fuck I'm being paid £500 an hour

@Terfasaurus

The lady at the tribunal today is doing a brilliant job & public service typing up the proceedings from her notes late at night.

twitter.com/selfcommit2othe/status/1461104605698400265?s=21

I wanted to I could have selected a person & sent it them. My conversation with c was not my intention to disclose.
GMC - do you accept when referencing golf..
Chair - stopped meeting & put into private session.

It’s a travesty. We all know what is being referred to and yet it’s going private to spare an abusive person’s blushes.

Well the GMC certainly seem to going for some robust questioning reading that Twitter transcript. Also sounds like they know the score about the golf quotes.

Thank you for so many insightful posts. So now we wait to see if the to be determined allegations are found and proved. I do hope so. Sadly if it were the case, there would be one less doctor in the country. But it would send a big message to men that women are not toys and property.

@Rainbowshit

Imagine spending all that time and money to become a doctor and just torpedoing it like this. What is he thinking?

I really don’t think some of them do think though.

One of Stonewall’s defence team, in Allison Bailey’s case against them, has been known to tweet Allison about GC v trans. And also to make comments about ‘black women, gay women, trans women’ which show exactly what they think of black lesbians.

Then there’s the fox killer. There’s a definite theme here.

Sort of why I think there should be some sort of fitness to practice psych exam. If there are underlying problems, and they remain unacknowledged/untreated, this pattern of behaviour is likely to continue.

I was talking to a consultant recently who suggested that it is now very hard to kick unsuitable students, those with inappropriate behaviour or work habits eg poor time keeping and attendance, out as if they try, the lawyers are brought in and it becomes expensive and time consuming. However poor students, almost inevitably become poor junior doctors, and with work pressure and exam pressure and patient contact that it where any failings really start to bite.

Sorry to be dim, but what is the golf reference?

That is true of nursing students also @Needmoresleep - it's so much effort to fail them in their placements and any criticism is weaponised.

Some time ago I had a spell working in insurance and there was a Dr there, doing the same lowly job as me - medical interviews for life/income protection insurance. He had got as far as being paediatric registrar and dropped out because of the pressure. But we were all amazed how he got that far. He had more time off sick than anyone I've ever known (that didn't have a recognisable serious illness), claimed his migraines were a disability, management had planned to lose him before his probationary period was up but in the end didn't dare challenge him. He was difficult let's just say.
Oh and one weekend when he had left early on Friday due to a crippling migraine that lasted all weekend he somehow managed to take part in the local Pride march as seen on TV.

@Mummyoflittledragon

Thank you for so many insightful posts. So now we wait to see if the to be determined allegations are found and proved. I do hope so. Sadly if it were the case, there would be one less doctor in the country. But it would send a big message to men that women are not toys and property.

I seriously dont think AH should be practicing. He seems to have no boundaries and zero understanding of the implications of his proffession. Personaly I would put money on a personality disorder.

Ben Hunte is great. Definitely a radical feminist sleeper agent.

Adrian wants to be important

I agree with this, he has for a long time tried to establish a media career, he has jumped from cause to cause and political party to political party in an attempt to gain traction somewhere.

Catching up on yesterday's tweets am I right in reading that Harrop has admitted a number of the allegations and the next step is for the tribunal to look at the ones that are to be determined?

(That was to @ChampagneCommunist)

Off topic, but yes @FannyCann. It may be worse now. DD is fourth year after a year out for intercalation, and had exams at the end of her first. The medical school then messed up the OSCI at the end of the second and used the same scenario for two days, without warning students not to talk about it. Surprise, surprise those on the second day won all the prizes. DD was in the first batch and did OK, but one or two of the early ones just scraped through when it might have been kinder to fail them, tell them to buck up, and ask them to repeat the year. The guess is that since the early groups were relatively disadvantaged the medical school would have been vulnerable to appeals. Third year was Covid so nothing much happened exam wise, then fourth year is finals. Some will presumably fail, but what a pity those on the wrong track, or those not putting in the effort/attendance were not picked up earlier and supported/monitored. The consultant was telling me that it is essentially at professional exam stage, which are brutal, where the wheels now come off. By then, I assume unprofessional habits are ingrained, and people who have got away with things for a decade may assume they can continue to do so.

@BreadInCaptivity you are correct to raise that. It was a very difficult time.

Ben Hunte's Twitter feed is a thing of beauty. I'm sure there are several mumsnetters on there

Re my previous post - apologies for derail and also I didn't in anyway mean to demean or belittle migraine sufferers - I know how crippling they can be and suffered have my huge sympathy.
It was only in that particular case where there were questions shall we say.

@Redshoeblueshoe

Ben Hunte's Twitter feed is a thing of beauty. I'm sure there are several mumsnetters on there

His article has certainly brought attention to Harrops behaviour, but not in the way Harrop or Hunte wanted.

How could they be so naive/arrogant as to think this would be a good move.

@PronounssheRa

Adrian wants to be important

I agree with this, he has for a long time tried to establish a media career, he has jumped from cause to cause and political party to political party in an attempt to gain traction somewhere.

Catching up on yesterday's tweets am I right in reading that Harrop has admitted a number of the allegations and the next step is for the tribunal to look at the ones that are to be determined?

I hadn't realised that. Transgenderism being just the latest cause. He's so invested, one would think it was incredibly personal to him and always had been.

Still, it's long been noted that the ideology is a misogyny magnet.

The first time I came across Harrop was in the local TV news (see below) where I lived at that time.

It's interesting watching him there that he seems quite different to recent years. He's calmer and comes across as reasonable if robotic.

In the videos of the last few years he's clearly blathering pre-prepared hyperbole in a wide-eyed and breathless way, which makes him look silly and patronising. When he debated Posie he was positively shrieking.

Catching up on yesterday's tweets am I right in reading that Harrop has admitted a number of the allegations and the next step is for the tribunal to look at the ones that are to be determined?

Ish.

Harrop has to finish his evidence.

If there are any more defence witnesses, they will give evidence.

Both barristers will give closing submissions - basically an executive summary of the evidence they think is important and they think the panel should pay attention to.

In the jurisdictions I'm familiar with, the legal advisor would then summarise the relevant law. But I don't think the MPTS has a legal advisor - I think they have a legally qualified chair instead - and I don't know how that works there.

I would anticipate at some point in all that there will be legal wranglings about what to do about the VICE article, but I am not even begin to guess how that will play out.

Then the panel will retire to make their decision. They will need to produce it in writing which, in my jurisdiction, would take a couple of days. I don't know if having a legally qualified chair would speed that up or not.

@Redshoeblueshoe There are

I have an aquaintance who teaches dentistry. She says the same about how impossible it is to fail students. Another issue she finds is dentistry, like medicine, is an aspirational subject - a subject families think has prestige and kudos (as well as financially advantageous). So students who are not incline towards caring, or not that interested in it, are pushed into it by families. This family pressure to do these subjects can be even more intense for overseas students as their families are sinking huge amounts of money into their courses and want to see the return (which could also be their source of support in retirement). So it can also be impossible for the students themselves to drop out.

I should have said "Adrian wants to be seen as important"

There's also the issue that, once in the professions, you're a high earner in a prestigious position, but one with a very limited skill set. So, if you realise a few years in it's not for you, it's really really hard to get out. There's nothing you can shift sideways in with your skill set which pays even half as much and, if by that stage, you've got a mortgage and 2.4 children you're effectively stuck.

The kindest thing, actually, is to weed out those for whom it isn't right at the earliest possible stage, so they can do something which is right for them. Healthcare - no matter which professional title - is actually a really weird way to learn a living. You're getting up close and personal with people's smelly bits, both literally and in terms of their lives and struggles. If you have a vocation for it it is the best thing ever. If you don't? It must be bloody awful.