Harrop MPTS Hearing

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I thought this may be of interest:

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-adrian-harrop-nov-21

The tribunal will inquire into the allegation that from 10 May 2018 to 23 November 2019, Dr Harrop inappropriately used his Twitter account to post tweets that were offensive and/or insulting and/or inappropriate in nature and some of which were intended to intimidate.

@Lovelyricepudding

But Lying Flawyer does and claims it’s all legit. Presumably because they are a defence witness.

But of all people witnesses can't possibly be allowed to see the rest of the evidence? They could corroborate another witnesses made up story to undermine the prosecution. If this individual was a witness then why are they allowed to see anything?

But of all people witnesses can't possibly be allowed to see the rest of the evidence? They could corroborate another witnesses made up story to undermine the prosecution. If this individual was a witness then why are they allowed to see anything?

Yes this is an interesting point. Witnesses don't sit and listen to each other's evidence do they? But is SH actually going to be giving evidence for the defence? Doesn't strike me as a very good strategy.

Might I suggest that we refrain from mentioning the litigious one or reproducing any of their words here?

MNHQ can probably do without the hassle that might ensue.

Looking at the charge sheets it seems a huge amount has been admitted and proved. That's a lot of things he's definitely done.

@RedDogsBeg

Strange how immediately after the meeting with his legal team over the Vice article AH needed to take a break and the Hearing was adjourned until tomorrow.

Wouldn't surprise me if AH threw the sickness sympathy card in tomorrow, self diagnosed sickness of course.

It won't work, long-term.

Losing an hour at the end of the day is one thing. But, if the panel is to agree to hearing being adjorned to new dates, they will want to see objective medical evidence stating he is too unwell to continue.

If he is that unwell it is of course right and proper that it be adjorned til he is well enough to defend himself. If he isn't, and the panel considers he has voluntarily absented himself, they have the authority to simply continue without him.

Do the civil procedure rules concerning witness statements which apply to civil courts also apply to this tribunal?
If so, has each and every witness statement given to Vice been admitted in evidence by the tribunal as opposed to merely been referred to?
Isn't this what the fox killer got wrong and apologised for very recently?

I don't know the procedure rules of civil courts. But tribunals are civil courts, working under the law relatign to the regulation of that profession. For example, the standard of proof is the civil standard.

I know that's half an answer. Does it help if I say it's normal for witness statements to be included in full (less agreed redactions) in the evidence bundle, and for them to form part of the evidence.

@Datun

From the vice article

Asked what he would like to say to the gender critics and transphobes who may read this, Harrop paused for a moment, before calmly and confidently responding, "you will not win".

This from the man who is in a professional tribunal, facing 15 charges, after being given two written warnings, and has now had to take a break because he has given an interview to the media, who now claim they have all the details of the witnesses??

"Harrop paused for a moment, before calmly and confidently responding, "you will not win".

What planet is he on?

A planet where a lot of 'snow' is falling?

@Motorina

I don't know the procedure rules of civil courts. But tribunals are civil courts, working under the law relatign to the regulation of that profession. For example, the standard of proof is the civil standard.

I know that's half an answer. Does it help if I say it's normal for witness statements to be included in full (less agreed redactions) in the evidence bundle, and for them to form part of the evidence.

But material being in the evidence bundle for use within the proceedings is one thing; disclosing it to third parties is quite another, surely?

Thanks, Motorina. I don't know how this tribunal works so that is helpful!
I don't know if being included in the evidence bundle is enough. I don't think it is in a civil court because otherwise there wouldn't be a distinction between being admitted in evidence and being referred to.

I'm so gobsmacked by how this is all playing out.

This is what the fox killer held his hands up over. It may not be the same but perhaps a bod with legal knowledge could confirm.
Can't do a link but it was here. goodlawproject.org/update/apology-jo-abingdon-bethell/

thanks @Motorina - I'm a bit gobsmacked that you're gobsmacked - shows we're not in Kansas anymore I guess!

He’s using the photos from this shoot for his Insta & FB avatar. It’s shameless.

Was his Instagram public earlier today? It's private now.

Not related to the tribunal obv but he used to have (or may still have) a picture of the grave of JonBenét Ramsey on his Instagram, documenting a trip to the USA. As it happens I met an older lady from Boulder and fell into conversation about how long she had lived in the U.K. etc. Turned out she was a neighbour of the Ramsey family. She said what was so awful in the aftermath of the murder was all the ghouls and murder tourists, creeping around, sneaking into gardens, taking photos and asking questions. I think she'd be petty appalled to find her U.K. GP (thanks to the wonderful nhs) was one of those ghouls.

Right I've just had a look at the Good law project's Twitter page - they want someone to run Foxys Twitter page for a day !

Fuck me. This has had more twists, turns and jaw drops than a series of Succession.

I mean, wtf is he at? One thing i am 100% sure of, he is not even 1% as smart as he thinks he is. He has clearly pressed the self destruct button, but will have a plan for life outside the medical register. I dont think he quite gets how no one would trust him to make them a cheese toastie, never mind prescribe life altering drugs.

@Redshoeblueshoe

Right I've just had a look at the Good law project's Twitter page - they want someone to run Foxys Twitter page for a day !

Wonder is he will do a Neville Southall and hand it over to the adult babies. That was a bizarre moment.

Right I've just had a look at the Good law project's Twitter page - they want someone to run Foxys Twitter page for a day

Wonder is he will do a Neville Southall and hand it over to the adult babies.

Joylon already has controls the Twitter account, I'm struggling to see anyone taking over who doesn't improve the quality of output.

Agog

I feel the adult babies are the only thing this hearing is missing. Bring ‘em on!

Does it help if I say it's normal for witness statements to be included in full (less agreed redactions) in the evidence bundle, and for them
to form part of the evidence

I think my query is in the material used for a tribunal limited to just those who will be witnesses. Or will the likes of my and others original complaint also be in the bundle. I realise no one may know and I have a message in and waiting on a response. But I would feel better if my complaint was never seen by the panel or AH or anyone associated with.

Interesting the MPTS website has a captcha if you try to access it now (and the captcha isn’t working properly). I wonder if they are being targeted by hackers

As @Motorina and @MissLucyEyelesbarrow have said, the MPTS tribunals are on a similar footing to civil courts.

They can even award costs against defendants:

Important changes
Two other changes to the procedures introduced by the 2015 amendments are of substantial importance. First, case management has been given a statutory presence which it had not previously enjoyed, and it is hoped that robust proactive case management will reduce further the length of hearings. Case management decisions will be binding on the parties and indeed, barring changes in the circumstances, binding on the tribunals as well. There is a new power in certain circumstances to make a costs award against a party, either the doctor or the GMC, who has behaved unreasonably in the conduct of the proceedings and, in particular, against a party who has failed to comply with case management directions or failed to comply with the fitness to practise rules.

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/pearl-arms-length-adjudication.pdf

@WitchButNotTheFunKind

Interesting the MPTS website has a captcha if you try to access it now (and the captcha isn’t working properly). I wonder if they are being targeted by hackers

There was no captcha earlier around half 3, but by the time I got home and tried again with the message a pp kindly gave, there was a working captcha. I suspect a lot of women are as worried as me that our details ( and I had to give a lot of info to make the complaint) have been given to a 'lawyer' and a "news" site.

"Terf - you might be better contacting MTPS.

Contact details here:

www.mpts-uk.org/contact-us"

I had a communication from MTPS and there were pronouns in the signature. Not sure I'd trust them either with my complaint.