Christian parents sue government over school's transgender policies

[ArtemesiaK]

Just wondered if anyone else had seen this?...

uk.news.yahoo.com/christian-parents-launch-legal-action-transgender-124902965.html

Yeah, this is the religious right I don't align my feminism with. Definitely no objection to boys in dresses, definitely happy when schools accept children as they are.

These people give ordinary gender critical women a bad name.

@Comefromaway

These people give ordinary gender critical women a bad name.

And Christians. We are not all close minded.

But you'll also note a huge number of parents of "trans kids" in the US that show up in the media with child in tow are also strong Christians.

There's a real pattern of them being uncomfortable with the way their kid was expressing themselves until they realised they were "really a girl/boy", so it's actually okay. And they get to do a sort of "born again" thing.

We don't really have a "right wing Christian" subculture in the UK so this is an entirely American issue.
In the UK bog standard homophobia and thinking that gender non conforming children should be sent to a clinic for medical intervention is our problem.

These parents have a protected characteristic and though important it isn't necessarily relevant to the story if you read what happened.

What I think is interesting is they are suing the government, not the school, council or LEA.

I share this as it covers what happened in more detail and not because of the source, if the BBC or Guardian was covering it in the same way I would be sharing that.

christianconcern.com/comment/nigel-and-sally-rowe-true-love-warns-it-speaks-the-truth/

The mother has essentially been forced to give up her career as a teacher in order to home school now both boys. This is their choice as parents but how much of a choice is it if they are not able to send their kids to school for fear of what they will be indoctrinated into.

This obviously affects their income and home life dramatically and has a huge impact on their sons. I sounds tired me like it wasn't their plan or their preference for the education of their sons.

Should they not be able to send their kids to school because they are Christian? Or because they don't subscribe to gender ideology?

Should they have to work to find money to send their boys to private school so to avoid it (if they can) or drive further away each day for the school run to find a school that doesn't teach gender ideology or can a school call you transphobic if you don't agree?

We have The Christain Legal Centre of gay cake fame, and it all goes back to the Festival of Light and Mary Whitehouse complaining about My Dingaling.

Plus we also have Seyi Omooba's father's organisation (the actress sacked from Colour Purple)

@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

Yeah, this is the religious right I don't align my feminism with. Definitely no objection to boys in dresses, definitely happy when schools accept children as they are.

I don't think that is a fair representation of their view. It wasn't boys coming to school in dresses that bothered them, but teachers explaining that by telling their children that boys can become girls and calling the parents transphobic when they disagreed.

I think I agree with the idea that isn’t fair or a good thing to let children believe they can change sex. They’re too young to understand it. Also he is quoted as saying it’s about an “ideology that is now embedded in schools, local authorities and Church of England leadership”. I think that’s right too.

I think I agree with the idea that isn’t fair or a good thing to let children believe they can change sex. They’re too young to understand it.

Another good reason for not letting children believe they can change sex is that it isn't true.

I think I agree with the idea that isn’t fair or a good thing to let children believe they can change sex

In a recent Year 9 PHSE lesson at my school, we discovered that every single pupil believed men could change sex to the extent that they would be able to have babies. They were shocked to learn that was not the case.

@Jaysmith71

We have The Christain Legal Centre of gay cake fame, and it all goes back to the Festival of Light and Mary Whitehouse complaining about My Dingaling.

Mary Whitehouse, eh. A woman who correctly interpreted what was happening with PIE and the Home Office.

whatcanidoaboutit.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/mary-whitehouse-versus-pie-the-home-office-1978/

Mary Whitehouse and her letter BBC's Director-General, Charles Curran about the song:

droppedthemoon.blogspot.com/2017/03/the-great-chuck-berry-has-passed-away.html

Maybe this should have been discussed in the public arena but how many more instances like this would have occurred, and, given the period, how much of it would have been dismissed as Boys will be boys?

"You teach children stuff at school and they believe it" shocker...

You teach children stuff at school and they believe it" shocker..

Some of us have started a resistance movement. We have some unpicking to do.

@OhHolyJesus

These parents have a protected characteristic and though important it isn't necessarily relevant to the story if you read what happened.

What I think is interesting is they are suing the government, not the school, council or LEA.

I share this as it covers what happened in more detail and not because of the source, if the BBC or Guardian was covering it in the same way I would be sharing that.

christianconcern.com/comment/nigel-and-sally-rowe-true-love-warns-it-speaks-the-truth/

The mother has essentially been forced to give up her career as a teacher in order to home school now both boys. This is their choice as parents but how much of a choice is it if they are not able to send their kids to school for fear of what they will be indoctrinated into.

This obviously affects their income and home life dramatically and has a huge impact on their sons. I sounds tired me like it wasn't their plan or their preference for the education of their sons.

Should they not be able to send their kids to school because they are Christian? Or because they don't subscribe to gender ideology?

Should they have to work to find money to send their boys to private school so to avoid it (if they can) or drive further away each day for the school run to find a school that doesn't teach gender ideology or can a school call you transphobic if you don't agree?

This. Whilst you might not agree with their faith, the key belief that sex isn’t changeable and gender presentation doesn’t change that is a gender critical position. Christians believe sex is defined by God (“male and female he created them”), gender critical feminists believe it’s biology. But it comes down to the same outcome - 6 year olds shouldn’t be given explainations for children’s atypical gender presentations as related to their ability or change sex.

Male children are boys regardless of what they wear.

I have two children who don’t present in sterotypical ways for their sex. I am very concerned that someone would make a daft comment to them that could be really damaging.
As we have always been very forthright that sex is unchanable but men and women can wear different things, enjoy different past times and do different jobs, our kids feel (thankfully at the moment) entirely happy in their sex and expressing their individuality.

I’m a Christian. The bible and biology are in alignment here.

You should love your neighbour as yourself. There are also only two sexes.

Also in the Times yesterday....
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nigel-and-sally-rowe-schoolboys-parents-sue-over-church-of-england-schools-gender-neutral-rules-gz553g9nz
I was a bit surprised by the "Christian Right" dismissals. I don't think Christians in the UK are particularly right wing.
Surely the trans ideology is schools is something that most people this board would like to challenge, religious or not...

Thank you @Missmissmiiiiiiiiisss . I couldn't put it in any better way.

Political leanings have absolutely nothing to do with the fact or faith of the situation. Not at all.
I feel great sympathy for these parents.

In a recent Year 9 PHSE lesson at my school, we discovered that every single pupil believed men could change sex to the extent that they would be able to have babies. They were shocked to learn that was not the case.

I think there would have been more interest in this thread if I'd left out the word "Christian"... :/

In a recent Year 9 PHSE lesson at my school, we discovered that every single pupil believed men could change sex to the extent that they would be able to have babies.

(I keep telling this story, but...)

I remember reading about a "sex change" somewhere around that age, possibly younger, and being puzzled, because it didn't seem to make sense.

Nothing I'd ever seen about medical technology suggested that this would be the sort of thing we'd have the ability to do.

A short while later I managed to establish that they just meant a cosmetic procedure, and I was simultaneously relieved that I hadn't been wrong about lots, and annoyed that I was being lied to.

So I came out fine, but then I only had one single source that seemed to be isolatedly telling me about a "sex change", so skepticism wasn't too hard.

In an environment where it seems to be taken as obvious that girls can become boys, I can easily understand why any skepticism gets crushed because you can see lots of adults telling you that sex changes are possible.

You have to be quite advanced to spot that they're actually lying and using weird "definitions" of words (if you can even call them definitions) to make false statements true.

Sure, pigs can fly, and the moon is made of cheese, as long as you're free to redefine all the words.

And how you're supposed to have "informed consent" for puberty blockers at age 11-12. How many kids of that age must think they're really going to turn into boys or girls later?

@Comefromaway

These people give ordinary gender critical women a bad name.

Yep.

This. Whilst you might not agree with their faith, the key belief that sex isn’t changeable and gender presentation doesn’t change that is a gender critical position.
Christians believe sex is defined by God (“male and female he created them”), gender critical feminists believe it’s biology. But it comes down to the same outcome - 6 year olds shouldn’t be given explainations for children’s atypical gender presentations as related to their ability or change sex.

I agree.

Also, Christians come from a broad range of political persuasions in the UK. It is not correct to characterise all Christians as being right wing in this country, or even as all enforcing gender stereotypes.

For instance, I know Christian families where the wife is the breadwinner and the husband stays home with the kids.

It is possible for the GC position and a Christian position to dovetail on (a) the existence or otherwise of gender identity and (b) the immutability of biological sex.

@ItsRainingProstateOwners

In a recent Year 9 PHSE lesson at my school, we discovered that every single pupil believed men could change sex to the extent that they would be able to have babies. They were shocked to learn that was not the case.

Year 9!!!!