Christian parents sue government over school's transgender policies

[ArtemesiaK]

Just wondered if anyone else had seen this?...

So often conversation seems to be at cross purposes these days.

This is general- it's same as the wider situation everywhere isn't it.

Just time after time of being strongly challenged on holding a view you have either not raised at or, or indicated that you don't hold.

Just a general comment. I'm getting tired of it though.

The org supporting them with the court case are evangelicals.

I mentioned earlier that round here anyway, they are indeed a different thing to mainstream Christianity in England. (IE where I live and different countries here some different religious landscapes so up just say England).

@NiceGerbil

The org supporting them with the court case are evangelicals.

I mentioned earlier that round here anyway, they are indeed a different thing to mainstream Christianity in England. (IE where I live and different countries here some different religious landscapes so up just say England).

Evangelicals are not a different thing to mainstream Christianity in England. Many Church of England churches are evangelical. The Evangelical Alliance has 3,300 member churches across 79 different denominations of Christianity and if the fastest growing approach of Christianity.

^^in the UK

Yes, there is a historical relationship between British and American evangelical groups but American Christianity all round is very, well, American.

But as for funding - many people who have fallen afoul of gender ideology have found the only people who would help them have been fairly conservative groups, often religious. The usual groups a person might look to, like civil liberties orgs, the Elizabeth Fry society, won't touch it.

Lovely I did say round here.

It's an area that is very interesting for diversity of religions / branches of religions including more fundamental groups.

Don't know about elsewhere.

Certainly the org supporting this couple with court case have a very particular set of ideas that I would think would not be main priorities for most CofE, and by a good number would be seen as quite extreme.

Also just checked a local church my friend used to go to. I remembered they did missions and wanted to see what doing now.

They do still do missionary work in big way. Aims are spreading word of Jesus, baptising people etc.

They are called charismatic evangelical. Had to look charismatic up. Interesting.

That's the norm that's being referenced as part of standard Christian community or, I mean it seems quite out of the mainstream to me.

(Apparently speaking in tongues goes on but no link so I mean. Years ago though. Dunno about now. Casting the devil out and whatnot).

Aims are spreading word of Jesus, baptising people etc.

If they didn't do this they wouldn't be Christian churches.

Spreading the word of Jesus is evangelism

@Tailendofsummer

Quote from article- "The Cornwall Guidelines must be scrapped and replaced with a policy that protects children from partisan materials that lead them down a road of irreversible harm." What would a GC poster on here object to about that stance?

Agreed.

I have huge sympathy for these parents. They have the right (protected in law) to have their Christian beliefs respected. Teaching children that boys can become girls by putting on a dress is disrespectful to these beliefs, is unscientific, and just plain wrong. I hope they succeed.

And another thing, it is entirely possible to be a right wing feminist and/or a Christian feminist. In fact, Baroness Nicholson is one of my feminist sheroes. Frankly, the atheist left have not covered themselves in glory on this issue. I am proud to stand alongside GC women of all religious faiths and none, and regardless of their wider political views.

@Lovelyricepudding

Aims are spreading word of Jesus, baptising people etc.

If they didn't do this they wouldn't be Christian churches.

I thought that sending missionaries overseas to essentially convert people there was not seen as generally positive these days.

My only point here is and has been all through.

That it's very interesting that strategic litigation, brought by people who are more likely to be seen in a sympathetic light, and 'backed' by religious orgs, seems to be on the rise here. When previously it was very much seen as a USA thing.

People’s idea that Christianity is a fringe activity are something I find odd.

A third of the world are Christian, and most of the world (a bit over half) believe in the same Abrahamic God. It is still the majority belief.

Among Christians, about half are Catholic, 10% Orthodox, 25% Evangelical and the rest mostly other Protestants.

Maybe it is easier to forget in secular places that the Abrahamic religions are still growing.

I'm RC myself.

The RC church has differences around the world/ and even church to church. In various ways.

And outside there, there are a huge number of flavours of Christianity.

In England the CofE is the state religion. It's the default. Births weddings funerals etc. Most who tick Christian on an equalities type list are not members of the less well known strands. And generally not particularly devout.

That's surely not in question?

The CofE as religion goes is pretty liberal, moderate etc.

To generalise that across all flavours strands etc gives an incorrect picture.

Anyone wanting to see can look through the info and cases on their site

christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

People can make their own minds up.

I thought that sending missionaries overseas to essentially convert people there was not seen as generally positive these days.

I made no mention of sending missionaries overseas but quite a lot of churches do send missionaries to the UK.

Evangelism/spreading the word includes to neighbours, local people, friends, relatives...

The CofE as religion goes is pretty liberal, moderate etc.

The Church of England is a very broad church. It has some very 'high church' churches with 'bells and smells', evangelical churches, charismatic churches, incredibly open to the point of nothingness churches, churches that would never have a women vicar to ones that embrace one....

@Lovelyricepudding

I thought that sending missionaries overseas to essentially convert people there was not seen as generally positive these days.

I made no mention of sending missionaries overseas but quite a lot of churches do send missionaries to the UK.

Evangelism/spreading the word includes to neighbours, local people, friends, relatives...

I did though specifically to point out that in England there are a massive range of strands of Christianity. Which are not mainstream. And round here that includes evangelist churches as well as loads of others.

I know that. Local c of e is 'high church'. Been a few times because reasons.

As someone raised RC it all felt quite familiar.

The fact is there are plenty of groups/ churches/ places of worship round here that are simply not mainstream in the context of England and C of E.

And imo that org beliefs are NOT mainstream in England.

I am not sure what you mean by 'mainstream'? Mainstream churches, all churches, believe in evangelism. It would be rather missing the point not too.

I'm sure you know what mainstream means!

I don't feel that you're replying to what I'm actually saying.

There is no doubt that different flavours of Christianity/ different churches etc have different views.

Some more liberal etc some more fundamentalist.

You agree with that surely?

Mainstream in the context of Christian Churches in England would be those that sign up to the doctrine of the Trinity. This leaves Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses outside of the mainstream tent.

Another way of looking at mainstream is to look at what the majority of churches do and say. That will vary between different countries. In England very conservative churches are rare. Christian concern is very conservative. They are against women in leadership and same sex marriage. They are mainstream theologically but in a minority in their conservatism in England.

When you start digging into what conservatism looks like in churches it is often social conservatism dressed up in doctrinal clothes. Lots of small c conservative congregations just don't like change and will object to women priests and SSM because it is new. They will also fight tooth and claw to keep the pews and the worship that was familiar to them when they were young.

I can only speak for how it is in England. My suspicion is that Scotland is more conservative than England and that in America conservatism, which is likely to include no women in leadership, reading the Bible literally, no SSM and deep ambivalence towards LGBTQ+ is mainstream.

It's confusing.

Mostlydrinkstea the churches you write off as 'not mainstream' - evangelical charismatic churches, who don't agree with women ministers or same sex marriage are some of the fastest growing churches. They nearly all have got rid of pews, barely use the organ in favour of music groups/worship bands. Many are Church of England and very much part of the establishment. It is mainstream for churches to consider the bible divinely inspired.

All this 'not mainstream' sounds just like TRAs saying 'GC are only a minority so we don't need to listen to them' or 'only a tiny group are worried about the word mother'.

Conservative charismatic evangelical churches are not in the majority in England. They are absolutely mainstream theologically. The word mainstream has two meanings. They are one but not the other. Maybe in the future they will be the majority but that isn't today. Who know where and how the spirit will blow?

Off to lead a quiet contemplative Eucharist and preaching on the vulnerability of leadership.

@mostlydrinkstea

Conservative charismatic evangelical churches are not in the majority in England. They are absolutely mainstream theologically. The word mainstream has two meanings. They are one but not the other. Maybe in the future they will be the majority but that isn't today. Who know where and how the spirit will blow?

Off to lead a quiet contemplative Eucharist and preaching on the vulnerability of leadership.

I was part of such a church in my late teens/early 20s. Most of the congregation were Ghanaian or West Indian origin. I remember what I now know to be gay conversion therapy being preached a lot. Luckily I saw sense but I could so easily have gone that way at an impressionable age.