Christian parents sue government over school's transgender policies

[ArtemesiaK]

Just wondered if anyone else had seen this?...

@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

Yeah, this is the religious right I don't align my feminism with. Definitely no objection to boys in dresses, definitely happy when schools accept children as they are.

Nigel Rowe said: "This is not just about boys wearing dresses. This case is about an ideology that is now embedded in schools, local authorities, and Church of England leadership, and is causing serious long-term harm to thousands of children

"We believe it is wrong to encourage very young children to embrace transgenderism. Boys are boys and girls are girls

How does that differ from what gender critical posters on here say?

Or is your comment a knee jerk reaction to the word "Christian"?

@Comefromaway

These people give ordinary gender critical women a bad name.

Nigel Rowe said: "This is not just about boys wearing dresses. This case is about an ideology that is now embedded in schools, local authorities, and Church of England leadership, and is causing serious long-term harm to thousands of children

"We believe it is wrong to encourage very young children to embrace transgenderism. Boys are boys and girls are girls

How is this any different from what "gender critical women" say?

@HipTightOnions

I think I agree with the idea that isn’t fair or a good thing to let children believe they can change sex

In a recent Year 9 PHSE lesson at my school, we discovered that every single pupil believed men could change sex to the extent that they would be able to have babies. They were shocked to learn that was not the case.

David Lammy - a senior labour party politician solemnly informed the nation that men could grow a cervix with the help of hormones and drugs so we shouldn't be surprised that children believe these delusions.

From the Times article:

In their letter to the government legal department, lawyers for the parents said that the school responded to their concerns in 2017 by saying that "anyone who could not believe that these children were girls or refused to use female pronouns, would be viewed by the school as being transphobic"

So not trans girls are trans girls but trans girls are girls. Sounds threatening to me!

I think Christian parents are entitled to use legal avenues as well. They're also entitled to object to being told that cheese isn't made from milk, that spaghetti grows in the fields, or that human beings can change sex.

I think there is some really disappointing hypocrisy from some people on this thread.

TRAs dismiss the GC viewpoint without even listening, call people bigoted for disagreeing with them, refuse to share podiums, suggest that certain opinions are too awful to be allowed. Can people not see their own hypocrisy in doing exactly the same thing to this Christan couple?

Everything they have said alligns entirely with the standard GC position as regularly expressed on this board. And yet, because you disagree with them about the nature of God, you dismiss them as bigots and exclude them from your feminism.

They have the same protected characteristic as Maya Forstater. Either we respect other people's right to belief or we dont. Which is it?

Quote from article- "The Cornwall Guidelines must be scrapped and replaced with a policy that protects children from partisan materials that lead them down a road of irreversible harm." What would a GC poster on here object to about that stance?

@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

Yeah, this is the religious right I don't align my feminism with. Definitely no objection to boys in dresses, definitely happy when schools accept children as they are.

Why are you assuming they are right wing? I couldn't see anything in the article about their political leanings? Or did you just read 'Christian' and make the assumption? Could you explain how the salvation army or methodists are right wing? Or Presbyterians? Or unitarians (who I would expect to be TWAW)? Do you think all Anglican churches have right wing leanings too or is it just some? Are those churches that are full on TWAW right wing too?

Yeah, this is the religious right I don't align my feminism with

I just want to say that is how the TRAs want us to think. It is more useful and interesting to state your argue against their ideas rather than just rubbish them with a label.

@Gncq

We don't really have a "right wing Christian" subculture in the UK so this is an entirely American issue. In the UK bog standard homophobia and thinking that gender non conforming children should be sent to a clinic for medical intervention is our problem.

Yes this. We are not America - we have different culture, history and laws.

Yes I know that’s stating the obvious (I have a cracking headache today). Bleh.

In a recent Year 9 PHSE lesson at my school, we discovered that every single pupil believed men could change sex to the extent that they would be able to have babies. They were shocked to learn that was not the case

This is why we have to keep on shouting about this loud and clear. People don't realise how children aren't distinguishing between being kind and facts.

For anyone reading from abroad and not familiar with the English school system, year 9 is comprised of teenagers aged 13-14.

So most of whom who have hit puberty? Dear god, do they also believe in the tooth fairy and santa?

Dear god, do they also believe in the tooth fairy and santa?

Maybe they would if people risked being charged with a hate crime, ostracised by their friends or losing their jobs for saying that Santa doesn't exist

In a recent Year 9 PHSE lesson at my school, we discovered that every single pupil believed men could change sex to the extent that they would be able to have babies. They were shocked to learn that was not the case

Was it possible to convince them that they had been mislead? Did they say where they'd got the information from? Is the critical evaluation of media not taught in the UK?

@Coyoacan

Dear god, do they also believe in the tooth fairy and santa?

Maybe they would if people risked being charged with a hate crime, ostracised by their friends or losing their jobs for saying that Santa doesn't exist

Reminds me of some autobiographies I read by women living through communist China at its worst. And you think ‘I can’t imagine people living in fear of being discovered for thinking the wrong thing’

@ArtemesiaK

Also in the Times yesterday.... www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nigel-and-sally-rowe-schoolboys-parents-sue-over-church-of-england-schools-gender-neutral-rules-gz553g9nz I was a bit surprised by the "Christian Right" dismissals. I don't think Christians in the UK are particularly right wing. Surely the trans ideology is schools is something that most people this board would like to challenge, religious or not...

People on this board rage at transgender ideology eg Kathleen Stock:s and JK Rowling::s persecution or the appointment of a man or transwoman )I'm not clear which/) to the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre , the embedding of trans ideology in into corporations who are being cooperative so that they can get a gold star from Stonewall. Did you really believe that they weren:'t going to try and get into schools? Indoctrination has begun but because the complainants are some religious group members, complaints are dismissed. Schools used to examine everything that came across the desk and check for accuracy, evidence of reliability, acceptability. Trans ideology has not been tested. It should never have been admitted into schools without verification that it is in fact true. All I can say is that I am glad my children are out of school now and missed all this.

I sympathise with this family. Not a Christian but come from a Christian family and know lots socially/through relatives. Very very few of them are even slightly right-of-centre. Majority are committed left wing socialists. Christian right wing as a movement isn't really a thing here (UK), is it?

Exactly, Kitten it is very frightening.

Was it possible to convince them that they had been mislead? Did they say where they'd got the information from? Is the critical evaluation of media not taught in the UK?

Yes and no. Half of them were relieved to hear clearly-articulated truths which actually made sense - and the other half struggled to reconcile them with what they thought they knew.

Unfortunately they have been taught in school:

• your gender identity is the “true you”
• you can take cross-sex “pills”
• you can have sex reassignment surgery

and have unsurprisingly put 2 and 2 together.

@Coyoacan

Yeah, this is the religious right I don't align my feminism with

I just want to say that is how the TRAs want us to think. It is more useful and interesting to state your argue against their ideas rather than just rubbish them with a label.

I'm struggling to see why this couple are being disowned. There was nothing in the report which indicated they were "right-wing" (although why "right-wing" is automatically used as a pejorative escapes me. Julia Hartley- Brewer and Douglas Murray are "right-wing" and they're both very popular on here)

Gender- critical feminists are always citing Muslim women and their need for single sex spaces to justify gender critical beliefs so I'm not sure why Christian beliefs are getting such short shrift.

I dont think it's fair either, my mother and her extended family are committed Christians, my mother is a Kirk Elder. However, she has never voted Tory and has managed to stay married to my Dad who is a lifelong atheist for over 50 years.
She also knows biology is real.

The Baroness is also a Christian.

I honestly don't have an issue with Christian parents objecting to the imposition of genderism on their children.

I imagine that as Christians in England's hitherto accepting, pluralistic society, they were very conscious of the social contract that they didn't push their religious beliefs on other people, and that in return, people respected their right to have a faith. It may be especially apparent to them that the tenets of genderism aren't restricted in the same way.

The double standards certainly annoy me and I am an atheist!