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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Question Time right now!

999 replies

Seeingadistance · 14/10/2021 23:24

Prof Robert Winston has just stated very clearly that it is not possible to change sex.

In relation to freedom of speech and Kathleen Stock.

OP posts:
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9
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 15/10/2021 08:25

Solely Winton's answers from QT:

Practicebeingpatient · 15/10/2021 08:27

@Viviennemary

Thats good. I agree. But I still think trans men and trans women should have rights.
Absolutely they should. But let's not pretend that a trans woman is the biological equivalent of a born woman or a trans man the same as a born man. They don't have to be the same to be equal.
borntobequiet · 15/10/2021 08:28

Grrr Alison McGovern was infuriating. Apropos of nothing much, my older brother is a dead ringer for Robert Winston! And similarly clever and lovely.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 15/10/2021 08:28

@PesosBandage

Meh, what does HE know ;)
Yeah! - I agree with Pesos

What does he know.

He's only the foremost scientist with 300+ peer-reviewed published papers and decades of experience in this field -

FEELZ!!!!!!!!

hamstersarse · 15/10/2021 08:30

It’s progress that this was allowed on the BBC but maybe next time Brucey will dare to let someone like Winston say even more. She knew he had more to say but just couldn’t quite do it.

It’s always so fascinating that biology can be summed up rather succinctly, in a few sentences but trying to explain how trans women are women takes such mental gymnastics that it’s impossible to be succinct or anywhere near comprehensible.

As an aside, I’ve met Winston, he’s extremely disagreeable. That’s fine by me, but explains why he’s ok saying this sort of thing regularly. Gives no shits about conflict whereas a lot of these leftie folk trip themselves up to people please. Thank god for disagrreeable people,

KittenKong · 15/10/2021 08:31

Is he grumpy? He always looked like a grumpy poodle to me (we had a grumpy poodle growing up).

1Endeavour2 · 15/10/2021 08:31

This reply has been deleted

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Cuck00soup · 15/10/2021 08:34

@justbackfrombangkok

I do worry that the clever, sensible people are getting on in years. Whatever will we do without them?
And the young will grow up. At least I hope so.

I’m among many gender critical feminists who started out from a much more liberal position of acceptance and then realised that women were bottom of the pile. As always.

hamstersarse · 15/10/2021 08:34

@KittenKong

Is he grumpy? He always looked like a grumpy poodle to me (we had a grumpy poodle growing up).
Yes! He’s very grumpy. Very.
toolazytothinkofausername · 15/10/2021 08:35

Well done Lord Winston!

borntobequiet · 15/10/2021 08:35

My brother is often grumpy and disagreeable on the surface, but he’s one of the kindest men I’ve ever met - was A&E consultant and perfectly lovely with patients. So I sort of assume Winston is like that.

Warmduscher · 15/10/2021 08:36

It’s absolutely shocking that Fiona Bruce wasn’t able to provide quotes from Kathleen Stock that the students in the audience considered to be transphobic.

Obviously the one quote she did have was entirely supportive of trans people, but I’m sure there will have been lots of viewers who imagined Dr Stock had said something so awful it couldn’t be aired on national TV.

The man in the audience who asked what she had actually said must have been really frustrated by Fiona’s response.

EwwSprouts · 15/10/2021 08:36

our youngsters have swallowed the whole chill pill with zero critical thinking
Some youngsters not all. Like many others, some are navigating the language and peer pressure without believing TWAW.

hamstersarse · 15/10/2021 08:37

Douglas Murray wrote a great article about how it’s only women who get cancelled for speaking out against trans. Men (like him) can seemingly say anything….but us women…‘fraid not!

Cwenthryth · 15/10/2021 08:38

Thing is, to the casual viewer not well versed in these issues, how do we think this all comes across? A random drama student waffling about “loads of science” vs Robert Winston, one of the nations most widely recognised, highly respected scientists. Fiona Bruce pretending that “humans cannot change sex” is some kind of highly controversial, contested, offensive thing to say, and then the everyman in the audience, after many people have already spoken, asking what was so offensive about what Kathleen Stock has said, and Fiona Bruce not being able to give a clear answer.

I know how I think that all comes across to the people just hearing about all of this for the first time.

FindTheTruth · 15/10/2021 08:39

The man in the audience who asked what she had actually said must have been really frustrated by Fiona’s response.

as was I watching it

Gumbomambo · 15/10/2021 08:39

Absolutely fantastic to see Robert saying this on the BBC, he knows he will get threats about it, he knows it would be easier to keep his mouth shut but he hasn’t.

SunshineCake1 · 15/10/2021 08:41

[quote bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg]Listen (again): www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0010k4m/question-time-2021-14102021[/quote]
Thank you for posting this. I have just watched it. What a load of nonsense from Alison. I was actually a bit fearful of what she was going to say next. I thought the theatre student needs some guidance and I really wish Professor Winstone had said a lot more.

justbackfrombangkok · 15/10/2021 08:41

I think he is marvellous. IMO he gets a free pass to be as grumpy as he wants.

TeamRex · 15/10/2021 08:42

trying to explain how trans women are women takes such mental gymnastics that it’s impossible to be succinct or anywhere near comprehensible.

Strange how it's not easy to explain nonsense.

Runningupthecurtains · 15/10/2021 08:43

I'd be bloody grumpy if I was a renowned and foremost expert in my field and my informed, evidenced, scientific knowledge was given less airtime than mumbo-jumbo and waffle an the feelz and wrong bodies.

EdgeOfACoin · 15/10/2021 08:45

Both the students were awful. The constant banging on about feeling 'safe' when they actually meant 'not being exposed to different viewpoints that might make me feel uncomfortable'. Yet when it was pointed out that Stock had actually faced threats of violence and death threats, I almost got a sense from the theatre student that Stock had brought it on herself. (Did anyone else get that impression? If not, perhaps I'm being unfair.)

Robert Winston and Anne McElvoy were excellent. I liked the no 10 adviser too.

Alison McGovern...waffle waffle waffle. Clearly no idea what Stock has said.

Queenoftheashes · 15/10/2021 08:46

Some of this is hilarious

SunshineCake1 · 15/10/2021 08:49

If a trans woman can't be a biological woman why are they given legal rights? I fully know I don't understand a lot about the trans situation. My son gave me a hard time when I said a person born a man can't become a woman biologically. But then we have Lord Winston who is to be respected and believed saying we can't change our biological sex. I will listen to him more than my child but also feel I'm missing something.

TreXX · 15/10/2021 08:50

Both the students were awful. The constant banging on about feeling 'safe' when they actually meant 'not being exposed to different viewpoints that might make me feel uncomfortable'

I remember feeling uncomfortable in my first feminist tutorials.. the challenge to my thoughts and world view was just that, uncomfortable.

But it led me to really question and consider important issues.

I'm grateful for that discomfort.

And I didn't swallow everything I was told, we all questioned and debated and didn't always agree.