14th October 'Nolan Investigates' podcast - Stonewall?

[Helleofabore]

This sounds interesting.

A special ‘Nolan Investigates’ podcast drops tomorrow afternoon on @BBCSounds. An 18 month investigation into the influence of a lobby group on public bodies throughout the UK. More details in the morning

It seems to be about Stonewall.

Anyone know more about it?

There is some chatter about it on Twitter.

twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1448052827088109568?s=21

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1448205588253618176?s=21

(Tweet from JCJ says:

Okay, at last, here it is.

The BBC Ulster documentary on the influence of Stonewall on public life in the UK.

Many GC women have been interviewed for this.

Let's take the lid off this thing shall we?

SW have acknowledged it. Mature👏as👏ever👏 (Perhaps that's why they didn't take part. Emojis and ''U OK hun'' doesn't really work in discussions with actual grown ups.)

Oh, and the BBC are a ''hate group'' now..

Owen Hurcum is back in Episode 8, dedicated to them being in "debate" with Debbie Hayton. No biological women involved, plus ca change.

Hurcum is out of their depth, just filibustering most of the time. Debbie is pretty good, she does pick Owen up now and then, e.g., on the hackneyed suicide claim, but doesn't really challenge for evidence. It's frustrating to listen to, you just want someone who will go for the jugular on that bloody false stat, because it's the one that always brings everything back to the, "Can't you just be kind and stop killing us?" emotional blackmail.

Having said that, the 2 presenters do really seem to get it, they are asking all the right questions, and they are particularly good on the right to girls' privacy (in the absence of any actual women to bring it up). Owen gives not 1 fuck for anyone else, certainly not women or girls. Owen has to resort to a "some women are perverts too" type argument on that one. Owen also gets snippy with Debbie about their pronouns, which is hilarious, because when it's David Thompson's turn to do the questioning, he addresses them collectively as "guys". Made me chuckle.

(It's so flipping hard trying to write and not misgender the special people! I've had to read that back and amend it about 6 times!)

What's with the clappy thing?

Is it like Bono on stage?

Bono: Every (clap) Time I (clap) clap my hands (clap), An African child dies.....

Heckler: ...Well stop fucking clapping, then!

Oh no! I don't think I could put up with more O.H.

Q: "so as a NB person do you sometimes feel more female some days and more male on other days?"
O.H. "me me no not me personally, I actually never experience feeling male or female that's how I know I'm NB me me...."
Stop the planet! EVERYONE else constantly feels maley or femaley otherwise how would we know?

Also I couldn't tell AT ALL what sex this person was, not at all, especially from their voice alone.

I love that they are actually pushing back on the assertions made that normally go unchallenged. Cohen cited the Taylor v Jaguar Land Rover as “case law” and Nolan had already bothered to contact the EHRC who advised it didn’t set president as only a lower court and warned against relying on it as case law.

That's great, well done Stephen Nolan!

Clap clap (teacher)
Clap clap clap (kids in reply)

That’s what the teachers would do to get the kids attention.

@KittenKong

Oh yes - I remember the local orange lodge used to do a nice parade through our town...🙄

I think Horcrux was only elected by councillors not the actual people of Bangor. Probably his party's turn or something?

Currently on episode 5. Bell is excellent. Had to get through the that was episode four. Did have a titter when OH so very nearly was going to say there were 2 sexes. Thankfully OH threw intersex in there as a third, and all was well in OH world again 🙄

You know when someone else’s child is having a major strop and about to go nuclear - and all the adults panic and give the child the chocolate they are demanding? That’s how I imagine it.

Eek..a reply to a different post. But yes I'm sure Owen would love banging the drum. The Lodge needs diversity.

@Gncq

Oh no! I don't think I could put up with more O.H.

Q: "so as a NB person do you sometimes feel more female some days and more male on other days?"
O.H. "me me no not me personally, I actually never experience feeling male or female that's how I know I'm NB me me...."
Stop the planet! EVERYONE else constantly feels maley or femaley otherwise how would we know?

Also I couldn't tell AT ALL what sex this person was, not at all, especially from their voice alone.

I think he knew his sex too (even though he hadn't checked his chromosomes) since he said that sex was binary, even though gender isn't so I took that to mean he knows he has a sex, but they have a gender identity. Hope I got that right.

I wish Nolan had asked why we need this stuff for gender identity when we don't for any other aspect of a person's identity that has been discovered through navel gazing rather than as a product of biology, place of birth etc.

Did have a titter when OH so very nearly was going to say there were 2 sexes. Thankfully OH threw intersex in there as a third, and all was well in OH world again

Nearly slipped up, didn't them?

Proof if it was ever needed that these people don't give a fuck about ''intersex'' people. They wouldn't be so fucking insulting if they truly cared.

They're just using them to prop up their nonsense arguments (and their argument is still nonsense, because people with DSDs are still either male or female).

As for not knowing what thems chromosomes are... What a load of tosh. We can assume them is not ''intersex'' else them would likely know...that means you're just boring old XY Owen, along with 49% of the UK population. You're welcome.

Opps, I see he threw in intersex as a third sex, but that's just wrong because people with a DSD are one of two sexes. So if we put aside his error, we can conclude that he knows there are two sexes. Well, that's progress isn't it?

Also the fucking gall of a male person saying sex isn't important. Sure, mate. You're part of the sex that commits 98% of sex crimes and 96% of worldwide murders. You'll never have a period, a smear test, or give birth to a child. But sex isn't important. Arrogant, ignorant little toerag.

Amen Sistah! Preach!

Oh, and the BBC are a ''hate group'' now..

Everything it a hate group, Everything.

It's like these people have failed to develop any emotional maturity........

@PronounssheRa

Oh, and the BBC are a ''hate group'' now..

Everything it a hate group, Everything.

It's like these people have failed to develop any emotional maturity........

They are going to alienate any reasonable allies at this rate.

I've listened to the whole thing - very emotional to hear so much institutional "corruption" laid out so clearly.
Episode 5 - Dr David Bell was outstanding and chilling. He is so clear and articulate about what's happened to children. Every teacher and school should be listening to this asap. Parents could send the link to their child's school.
The debate between OH & Debbie Hayton was telling - tbh I think some of the points made were powerful coming from a transwoman and much harder for OH to challenge (not that he appeared to have much in his armoury to shore up his ramblings).
In Episodes 9 & 10 Ofcom and the BBC come out as disingenuous, naive and at times dangerous given their roles. Their twisting and turning to avoid acknowledging that they compromised their independence was depressing.

So pleased to see that the BBC allowed this to be published despite it showing them in such a poor light and well done to Nolan Investigates for taking on this issue. The question is, what happens next?

I’m my (fairly limited) experience of investigative journalism... there are generally some doozies that they can’t quite make stand up (without the lawyers having a fit), so I imagine there’s more juicy stuff that was left out...

I can see Twitter has lost its shit over this as predicted.

What I find most concerning though is this idea that Stonewall should be beyond any investigation or scrutiny, just because its an LGBT organisation. This 'untouchable' rhetoric is exactly what allowed the likes of the Catholic Church to cover up what was going on in their organisation for so long. And before anyone says, I am not accusing the LGBT community of being paedophiles, or however else one might twist it. Just that absolutely no one no matter who they are, should be beyond scrutiny. And also that when it is obvious that an organisation or institution is above investigation or accountability, that organisation becomes very attractive to people who do have bad motives and are looking for somewhere to hide in plain sight.

@yourhairiswinterfire

SW have acknowledged it. Mature👏as👏ever👏 (Perhaps that's why they didn't take part. Emojis and ''U OK hun'' doesn't really work in discussions with actual grown ups.)

Oh, and the BBC are a ''hate group'' now..

I've listened to a couple of eps today and can't remember if I heard them say SW refused to take part. I assume something this robust would have tried to get hold of them repeatedly. Are they in it at all or was it made without them?

So once again they've refused to engage and painted themselves as the victim of a witch-hunt?

Stonewall (and other organisations) ignored most questions and submitted meaningless statements that ignored all the questions about undue influence, privileged access to organisations, unethical activity etc.

BraveBananaBadge
The programme merely read out the statement (in full tedious detail)

What I find most concerning though is this idea that Stonewall should be beyond any investigation or scrutiny, just because its an LGBT organisation. This 'untouchable' rhetoric is exactly what allowed the likes of the Catholic Church to cover up what was going on in their organisation for so long.

Owen Jones made pretty much this exact argument.

Stonewall is the main LGBTQ civil rights organisation in the country.

That there's a systematic attempt to monster and destroy it when homophobic hate crimes have trebled and transphobic hate crimes have quadrupled represents a grave threat to LGBTQ people.

You could just have well have said:

The Catholic Church is the main Christian organisation in the country.

That there's a systematic attempt to monster and destroy it represents a grave threat to Christians.

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

I can see Twitter has lost its shit over this as predicted.

What I find most concerning though is this idea that Stonewall should be beyond any investigation or scrutiny, just because its an LGBT organisation. This 'untouchable' rhetoric is exactly what allowed the likes of the Catholic Church to cover up what was going on in their organisation for so long. And before anyone says, I am not accusing the LGBT community of being paedophiles, or however else one might twist it. Just that absolutely no one no matter who they are, should be beyond scrutiny. And also that when it is obvious that an organisation or institution is above investigation or accountability, that organisation becomes very attractive to people who do have bad motives and are looking for somewhere to hide in plain sight.

Yes this stands out to me as the bigger issue that got Nolan and his team on the case, aside from the 'you couldn't make it up' incredulity at the world of gender identity.

@MrsOvertonsWindow

BraveBananaBadge The programme merely read out the statement (in full tedious detail)

Ah yes, thanks. Attempting to avoid scrutiny once again then...