Telegraph - Women prisoners who call transgender inmates ‘he’ or ‘him’ face extra jail time

[OvaHere]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/08/women-prisoners-call-transgender-inmates-face-extra-jail-time/

This is an utterly disgraceful abomination of human rights. First they put male rapists and murderers in women's prisons then the women are punished if they won't go along with the despicable pretence.

Extract

Women prisoners who call transgender inmates by the wrong pronoun could face extra time in jail under equality rules, says a justice minister.

Female inmates who deliberately call a transgender woman “he” or “him” could be punished under rules barring “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour”.

The penalties will be decided by an independent adjudicator, a visiting judge, who has the power to impose additional days if they feel the abuse merits such a punishment.

The disclosure comes amid a growing debate over the policy of holding male-to-female transgender prisoners in women’s jails.

This summer, the High Court rejected a legal challenge to prevent transgender inmates with convictions for sexual or violent offences against women being imprisoned alongside other women.

In 2019, there were 34 transgender women who were still legally male detained at the 12 women’s prisons in England and Wales.

We can't post archive links now but the full article is out there if anyone wants to look.

I think this is the first step towards making "misgendering" a crime.

[quote KeepPrisonsSingleSex]Prof Michael Biggs has written on the changing criteria that has enabled prisoners of the male sex to be housed in the female prison estate:

osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/43f2t/

There's a summary on our website here:

kpssinfo.org/history-of-males-in-womens-prisons/[/quote]
Thank you very very much.

My lightbulb moment from the fact new to me this was going on in 80s, leading me to wonder if it was an evolution of existing practice etc than a big bang change. Is true then. That makes more sense in terms of how the hell intact convicted rapists are going to women's estate.

I would encourage EVERYONE to read the summary. It is factual easy to read and incredibly informative and eye opening.

I understand now how this current utterly outrageous situation happened. A slow creeping change to what already happened. Slow and incremental which is how women were not considered at any point at all. Appalling. Misogyny from the start. But the how is clear now.

kpssinfo.org/history-of-males-in-womens-prisons/

@OvaHere

I disagree .
Some people are borne in the wrong body
If they have GRS they should be treated as a woman. Even if they are in the process.

Put your self in there shoes.

I can’t believe you said that it’s so sad.

[quote Cascascascas]@OvaHere

I disagree .
Some people are borne in the wrong body
If they have GRS they should be treated as a woman. Even if they are in the process.

Put your self in there shoes.

I can’t believe you said that it’s so sad.[/quote]
Nobody is born in the wrong body. Even Mermaids now agree that was a fallacy.

But please do keep feeling sorry for men, many whom have a history of violent sex offending, who game their way into the women's prison system.

@Cascascascas Would you ever tell someone with a physical, visible disability that they had been born in the wrong body?

Or would you recognise that as offensive?

[quote Cascascascas]@OvaHere

I disagree .
Some people are borne in the wrong body
If they have GRS they should be treated as a woman. Even if they are in the process.

Put your self in there shoes.

I can’t believe you said that it’s so sad.[/quote]
The department of education have banned schools from telling children that. Because its patent nonsense. And although clearly not true, convincing people it is, is dangerous.

Convicted rapists and paedophiles are being given access to incarcerated women on the back of it.

Googling autogynephilia might also shed some light on the issue for you.

How can anybody be “born in the wrong body”? You ARE your body. As PP says, even the trans activists, allies and pressure groups don’t make this fatuous claim.

No one has been "born in the wrong body" and even trans lobby groups have stopped using that term.

Two different blogs from trans people objecting to the idea they were born in the wrong body.

medium.com/@ignatiusweeks/i-am-transgender-and-i-was-not-born-in-the-wrong-body-4d3219473fc2

theameliamay.medium.com/trans-not-born-in-wrong-body-d2ed8fa5d1de

[quote Cascascascas]@OvaHere

I disagree .
Some people are borne in the wrong body
If they have GRS they should be treated as a woman. Even if they are in the process.

Put your self in there shoes.

I can’t believe you said that it’s so sad.[/quote]
No one is born in the wrong body.

Mine was born thoroughly messed up and doesn't work properly at all. I don't however spend my time insisting I was born in the wrong one - where is the point? I can't change it or opt out of it, my mental health is based on learning to live with the unhappy reality of it.

'put yourself in their shoes' -

for goodness sake.

Put yourself in the shoes of the female humans or vagina bearers or bodies with ovaries or whatever you currently feel able to refer to them as without cringing, and think about their experience.

If you're a male supremacist, who believes that anyone born biologically male always supersedes females, and that their needs and feelings and wishes must always take precedence over those lesser beings, then you do you. But own it. And stop pretending you care about equality or empathy or compassion, because you don't. From what you are saying here, you only care about male people's needs being met at the expense of female ones.

I don't believe the distressing experience of some males can only be met by causing greater distress to a very large percentage of females. I don't believe that is right or just. I don't believe that discrimination is any better when it's directed at some people rather than others. And I believe there are limits as to how far a male person can be treated in the way they wish; those limits being impact upon female people.

I am beginning to think we need a concerted campaign on this. Would sex matters be interested in heading it up? Letter writing to every Conservative MP (as it's their party in power)?

Male rapists in female prisons is an obvious injustice. The judge thought so in that case, but he was tied by the letter of the law. Parliament is the place to change this.

Apologies - just seen the template letter from A Women's Place.

I am also shocked to see Tim Farron (Lib Dems) actively campaigned for this state of affairs.

Would LOVE to see/ help with a concerted campaign. Surely this is something that could get wide support?

Tim Farron would campaign for anything that he thought was on trend.

He may not be the brightest button in the box but that is his party's stance.

Ed Davey was asked on Radio 4 about safe places and in response to the question if there was anywhere that trans women should't be able to go, he replied No.

He is also really into all the pro nouns shite, as are most of the politicians in that party.

So, bumbling Tim Farron is keeping up the rear, making sure he sings the right song.

@TheABC

I am beginning to think we need a concerted campaign on this. Would sex matters be interested in heading it up? Letter writing to every Conservative MP (as it's their party in power)?

Male rapists in female prisons is an obvious injustice. The judge thought so in that case, but he was tied by the letter of the law. Parliament is the place to change this.

We have been running a campaign for over a year now:

kpssinfo.org/

See here for how to get involved:

kpssinfo.org/get-involved/

You can follow us on Twitter to see what we are up to (last week at Tory Party Conference, this past week doing broadcast media): @NoXYinXXprisons

Our first report on prisons will be coming out soon, focussing on Scotland and the Scottish Prison Service.

I came on to say KPSS too. They’re doing an amazing job on this & that Telegraph article’s off the back of their research, so surely it makes sense to back an already existing campaign? Here’s a link to their Get Involved section. kpssinfo.org/get-involved

@ComprehensiveTea

Would LOVE to see/ help with a concerted campaign. Surely this is something that could get wide support?

Keep Prisons Single Sex have been amazing this year. I keep seeing them all over the place.

Although clearly I missed them right here on this thread