Telegraph - Women prisoners who call transgender inmates ‘he’ or ‘him’ face extra jail time

[OvaHere]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/08/women-prisoners-call-transgender-inmates-face-extra-jail-time/

This is an utterly disgraceful abomination of human rights. First they put male rapists and murderers in women's prisons then the women are punished if they won't go along with the despicable pretence.

Extract

Women prisoners who call transgender inmates by the wrong pronoun could face extra time in jail under equality rules, says a justice minister.

Female inmates who deliberately call a transgender woman “he” or “him” could be punished under rules barring “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour”.

The penalties will be decided by an independent adjudicator, a visiting judge, who has the power to impose additional days if they feel the abuse merits such a punishment.

The disclosure comes amid a growing debate over the policy of holding male-to-female transgender prisoners in women’s jails.

This summer, the High Court rejected a legal challenge to prevent transgender inmates with convictions for sexual or violent offences against women being imprisoned alongside other women.

In 2019, there were 34 transgender women who were still legally male detained at the 12 women’s prisons in England and Wales.

We can't post archive links now but the full article is out there if anyone wants to look.

But a woman must put up with language she finds unacceptable?

It is right that bullying, including transphobic bullying, is sanctioned in prisons.

No, you should be able to be a conscientious objector to gender identity ideology. I don't accept it is "transphobic bullying" to acknowledge a male as male. What about women's human rights?

The heart of the matter is that males should never have been housed in women's prisons in the first place.

And like all other bullying or discrimination issues, it is what the recipient of the behaviour thinks that is the key. Policies have been set up that way round since the 1999s or earlier. A white group doesnt get to tell a BAME person they should put up with language that they find unacceptable, even then the white group thinks that language is fine.

It seems to work that way for everyone but one key, large disadvantaged group of people. Can you guess who that is?

@OvaHere

The issue here is not trans women in womens jails it who people get to be diagnosed as trans.

Self proclaimed should not be enough. One should have a history and a proper gender specialist diagnosis of dysphoria.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

What a fascinating article about head injuries. Someone needs to do a post mortem study of female poisoners/former prisoners looking for CTE. It just shows how utterly destructive domestic violence is.

No, you should be able to be a conscientious objector to gender identity ideology. I don't accept it is "transphobic bullying" to acknowledge a male as male. What about women's human rights?

100% this.

If someone's religion requires me to perform some ritual for them, and I refuse to perform that ritual, we're at a rights stalemate.

Me refusing to use their preferred form of (indirect) address when talking about them is a squillion miles away from harrassment.

I really dislike people using an abbreviated form of my name, but it's not harrassment. And if they felt they had a good reason to do so, then my dislike doesn't outweigh their freedom of speech/belief.

A white group doesnt get to tell a BAME person they should put up with language that they find unacceptable, even then the white group thinks that language is fine. And if that language is being deliberately used to taunt and exclude, then it's a serious bullying issue.

Ah but what if a group of those white people have black souls? Can they then decide what language BAME people should use to describe themselves?

[quote Cascascascas]@OvaHere

The issue here is not trans women in womens jails it who people get to be diagnosed as trans.

Self proclaimed should not be enough. One should have a history and a proper gender specialist diagnosis of dysphoria.[/quote]
I disagree. We should never have started putting any male people in female prisons. This is how we got to this situation in the first place. No amount of history or diagnoses change someone's sex.

I also think that bullying should not be tolerated in prisons. However, we're not talking about bullying someone based on a protected characteristic like sexuality, it looks more like a "pseudo-bullying" that in certain circumstances might be more like a self-defence characteristic, ie there'll be some women in prisons whose mental health would be harmed by being coerced into expressing something they know is not true.

In other words, my concern is that in the current climate it will be easy to characterise as "bullying" things which are women resisting something that's simply wrong.

The fundamental problem here, like others have said, is that male people are in women's prisons and some women prisoners, quite justifiably, will object to this.

But if the women don't believe in gender which is a protected belief , then you cant misgender someone.

So this punishment is not about ensuring no bullying takes place. Ita about having rights to someone else's eyes ears and thoughts and reprogramming /brainwashing them.

Again prison is the punishment. People cant just make shit up and expect everyone to follow whatever rules they decide on that day.

Just read this.

Underneath a piece about Kathleen Stock and Sussex University.

I said on another thread but my post got deleted... I'm not sure what for so I'm going to say this bit again.

It is akin to extending prison sentences because a women refuses to observe a religious ritual. Because she doesn't believe in it.

It is suspect to me that a decision about whether the "misgendering" was done in a bullying way would be impartial.

In other words, my concern is that in the current climate it will be easy to characterise as "bullying" things which are women resisting something that's simply wrong.

Whereas a male entering a female prison, and reporting women who refuse to treat him as a woman to the authorities, is not "bullying" them in the slightest.

Men shouldn't be womens prisons full stop @NiceGerbil

So feck off with your ' I agree if its for bullying'

FFS!

I completely agree WomanInBoots.

This is horrifying- state sanctioned gaslighting

Get locked up with a convicted rapist but don't dare call him 'he.' Forced lying is Orwellian. 2+2=5, Winston, and you'll get time added on if you fail to acknowledge this man is a woman.

Forcing women to be sexist and misogynistic is an abuse of human rights.

Surely its a human right to name reality, you should not have to be a quaker or have asd to be granted that right.
What if people were not allowed to say the sky is blue or that water is wet.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Men shouldn't be in women's prisons, so I'm never going to agree that women should ever be punished for accurately referring to them by male sex pronouns. I think it's a breach of their human rights.

I don't believe "misgendering" is or should be a thing people should expect to be protected from.

Yup.

Get males out of women's prisons for a start.

It's beyond insulting to wank on about equality, dignity etc etc in prisons when the authorities don't give a flying fuck through a rolling donut about those things when it comes to women.

And no one should be sanctioned for misgendering - it's enforced capitulation to an ideology and I will never accept that it's valid.

Men shouldn't be in women's prisons, so I'm never going to agree that women should ever be punished for accurately referring to them by male sex pronouns. I think it's a breach of their human rights.

This.

Men shouldn’t be in there in the first place. I will never ever agree that it’s “bullying”, under these circumstances.

The genius of this movement has been in painting women as the aggressors.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Men shouldn't be in women's prisons, so I'm never going to agree that women should ever be punished for accurately referring to them by male sex pronouns. I think it's a breach of their human rights.

I don't believe "misgendering" is or should be a thing people should expect to be protected from.

This.

And also prison time for misgendering???

I mean fucking come on!

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?*

• Apart from the sex the perpetrator who attacked you, in that case you must lie.

Get men out of women's prisons. Make the men on B wing stop bullying Trans inmates instead of gaslighting vulnerable women.