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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils

312 replies

Highwind · 29/09/2021 23:01

Reported by the Guardian....

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/29/new-guidelines-for-transgender-participation-unveiled-by-uk-sports-councils

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NotBadConsidering · 29/09/2021 23:05

The long-awaited report argues there is no magic solution which balances the inclusion of trans women in female sport while guaranteeing competitive fairness and safety. And, for the first time, it tells sports across Britain that they will have to choose which to prioritise.

I think we know which they will choose Hmm.

Highwind · 29/09/2021 23:05

And again here with some extra information

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/29/what-does-the-new-transgender-guidance-mean-for-sports-in-uk

OP posts:
AlecTrevelyan006 · 29/09/2021 23:06

Also on bbc
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/58732146

AlecTrevelyan006 · 29/09/2021 23:08

Here are some further key points from the review and guidance:

There is no one solution to suit everyone. The guidance recognises there needs to be different solutions for different sports, so it is about acknowledging the needs of different groups.

For many sports, the inclusion of transgender people, fairness and safety cannot co-exist in a single competitive model.

If a sport governing body considers transgender inclusion, fairness, and safety are all priorities, then a model for decision-making around the best options and opportunities should be developed.

Evidence indicates it is fair and safe for transgender people to be included within the male category in most sports.

Competitive fairness cannot be reconciled with self-identification into the female category in gender-affected sport.

There are likely to be times in which some transgender people cannot or choose not to be registered, either in the short or long-term, within sex binary categories..

'Case-by-case' assessment is unlikely to be practical nor verifiable for entry into gender-affected sports.

Some governing bodies will need to create a mechanism where domestic competition can lead to an international competition pathway.

Highwind · 29/09/2021 23:11

Thanks for paragraphing the articles fellow cervix havers, I can’t as I am on my phone and my eyes really struggle to see properly on this tiny thing!

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ArabellaScott · 29/09/2021 23:14

It's very clear that it's unfair to have males participate in female sport.

This really is passing the buck onto the sports bodies.

But it spells it out really clearly - and asks the question:

'Will you prioritise females or allow males to cheat'?

Olderbadger1 · 29/09/2021 23:17

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OvaHere · 29/09/2021 23:18

Is this good news of sorts?

I know they are basically saying it's up to you if you decide to disrespect and disadvantage women but at least it's there in writing and they can't say they didn't know or weren't warned especially if a female athlete is hurt or killed.

APurpleSquirrel · 29/09/2021 23:21

I think it's good news as it's making it clear there are three options to sports. & depending on which they choose will make them liable for the result. It also means women can make the choice about which sports to participate in by which one's prioritise their safety.

Talipesmum · 29/09/2021 23:24

This is amazing! Is there a link to the scientific assessment and studies they collated? Sounds like a very careful and comprehensive review, and it’s very open and honest about the conflict! I love that there are suggestions to change formats, to have open categories- it’s hugely important that everyone who wants to play sport can do so. But the highlighting of competitive fairness is soooo refreshing - it’s not the same as validating, and it still matters!
One of the guardian reviews says

“ “However, an understanding of the gap between the two sexes can be recognised by results of practice matches between national senior women’s football teams against underage boys’ teams in recent years,” it says. “The national teams from Australia, USA and Brazil were beaten comprehensively (7-0, 5-2, 6-0 respectively) by club teams of 14- and 15-year-old boys.”

And:

““The difference in performance, even at the lower range of 10-12%, is not small in terms of competitive outcomes,” they add. “It would result in Adam Peaty being beaten by half the pool length in a short-course 100m breaststroke competition, Dina Asher-Smith by more than 20m in the 200m track sprint, and Sir Mo Farah being lapped twice in the 10,000m track race.“

These are excellent examples to use. These are not minor differences.

NiceGerbil · 29/09/2021 23:26

Wow!

That's massive.

And eminently sensible. 3 reasonable options to choose from/ mix and match.

They state a commitment to inclusiveness in sports. And that they understand single sex may mean some TW can't join in (or at least not in the group many seem to want to).

Also reiterate the frankly bleeding obvious about males being physiologically different to females and in almost all sports males have an advantage that cannot be erased by reducing testosterone.

Seems like great news all round.

I suspect that there are a lot of unhappy people on twitter...

Helleofabore · 29/09/2021 23:29

Thanks for posting.

Totallydefeated · 29/09/2021 23:30

Wow - no gaslighting us by telling us that biological males will have no advantage when competing against biological females!

I was assuming they'd cravenly follow all the other sheep bleating that the emperor's clothes are splendid.

Happy they're shining a light on the difficulties of this instead. Good stuff.

PizzaCrust · 29/09/2021 23:38

The only sports that can allow everyone to compete together are sports where women already compete directly against men; see, equestrianism. There aren't too many others that can be added to that list and it's for good reason.

I used to play contact rugby many moons ago. I was shit but it was a fun hobby for a while, and some of the (very good) female players were absolute powerhouses. My body ached for days after a match. However, as strong as they are, biology talks and if a man was to play contact rugby against us, most women would be leaving the sport early with horrendous injuries, if not worse, completely regardless of how strong the women in question were.

We don't need wishy-washy advice. We need it outlined and made entirely unambigious. If you are trans and want to play in a sport where men already can't compete directly against women, I'm sorry but you'll just have to find another sport or compete against other transwomen.

I really don't understand why this is so difficult for people to understand. It isn't being transphobic, it's speaking an uncomfortable truth. And as much as people want and beg for life to be fair, life is never going to be fair. If it was, we wouldn't have millions of people living in poverty across the world.

NiceGerbil · 29/09/2021 23:49

Not passing the buck so much as giving sports bodies the backup to keep sex categories. Or have female only and open category. Or if they want to prioritise trans inclusion then be open about it and consider and understand the impact on women.

I think it's great tbh.

Also note they included a reminder of the law- that sex categories are legal.

NiceGerbil · 29/09/2021 23:56

Pizza I totally get what you're saying and why.

I am fine with this statement though.

  1. Sex segregated. That's legal and fine.
  2. Female and open categories. Male transpeople whether suppressing t or not, and female people on t. Compete in the open category.
  3. If you want to proritise trans inclusion by including anyone male and anyone female on t in the female category. Despite the clear Risk/ unfairness. That's up to you but you need to be clear you are doing this, and that you have decided to open the women's cat up anyway.

Additionally they can think about additional options for their sport eg including a mixed non contact version.

I'm fine with that.

The important part is what will the sports orgs do about it. Ball in their court. With this clear statement on the table, if they prioritise inclusion then it will be clear to all that this is an active decision and they know it's detrimental to female competitors.

donquixotedelamancha · 29/09/2021 23:58

A big win, I think. This will have ramifications internationally. In the UK the tide has been mostly against women, I think this will stop that.

NiceGerbil · 29/09/2021 23:58

And ones that make that decision can then be asked for justification and/ or women can move away. Which yes it shit.

Actually this also opens the door to new female only orgs. That is legal. And fair. And so any criticism is unwarranted. Plus of course as it's probably a sport that has stuck two fingers up at women then they are perfect for all trans people.

Highwind · 29/09/2021 23:59

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NiceGerbil · 30/09/2021 00:01

The other thing is that we have been performing so well in international competition for a fair few years now. Women especially are all over the medal boards in a way that weren't before.

We punch way above our weight (population size).

I suspect the sports council don't want to jeopardise the excellent results of UK women.

NiceGerbil · 30/09/2021 00:02

PLUS

'The landmark report is highly significant because it comes from UK Sport, Sport England, Sport Wales, SportScotland and Sport Northern Ireland, who between them invest hundreds of millions of pounds in sport each year. '

the Scots govt are going to go bonkers. This is an agreed statement across the whole UK. It's huge.

Empressofthemundane · 30/09/2021 00:04

Some common sense!

BettyFilous · 30/09/2021 00:09

This sounds encouraging. Sean Ingle’s report is also balanced and neutrally-framed too.

Imnobody4 · 30/09/2021 00:18

If a sport organisation declares that it is single sex, female only under the EQ Act exemptions and a trans women still joined would they be liable if a woman was injured. Shouldn't it be possible to prosecute for fraud? There ought to be an obligation to abide by the rules for transgender people.

OvaHere · 30/09/2021 00:18

Whilst I'm very happy and relieved to see the conflict laid out plainly I still feel angry that so much time, effort and no doubt money had to be spent proving what virtually everyone other than extreme ideologues know to be true.

It's fucking infuriating really.

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