New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils

[Highwind]

Reported by the Guardian....

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/29/new-guidelines-for-transgender-participation-unveiled-by-uk-sports-councils

@Datun

Plus, as we have seen umpteen times, if these boys identify as girls, the issue of changing rooms is going to come up.

Just say no!

What's in it for the girls???

Was just about to post about the impact of penises in changing rooms on female participation. Creating mixed versions of sports is not a magic fix either if TW insist on being counted among the women. The new mixed swimming/running relays, triathlon etc are based on two males and two females per team. If a TW takes one of the of the female spaces then we have the same result as if they complete in a purely female category e.g. a massive advantage for the team that has more male bodies and a woman denied the opportunity to compete.

Plus what they are demanding is completely unfair on others and that's before you get into the destruction of the safety of other participants.

I wonder if the wokiest, wokers ever woked Scottish Parliament will go along with this for Scottish Sport.
Goodness knows.

This in spades - anyone with half a brain cell,, going back in time, for all history, knows that men are normally stronger and bigger built than women

Imagine all the money being used to provide sports clubs with spare kit, San Pro, maybe an actual professional coach for girls to keep girls in sports instead. Wouldn't that have been lovely.

I used to coach rowing. Take a girls’ J16 quad scull. Remove a trained, reasonably competent, fit girl and replace with a trained, reasonably competent, fit boy of the same age. Result: boat goes faster. Every time. Even if said boy is physically smaller and lighter than said girl.

This is interesting - I am involved in a sport that has been mentioned above as not being great for women. I am due to go to a women’s event soon. When I booked on it said something along the lines of “for those who identify as women or non binary”. I have just logged onto it to try and get the exact wording and it has changed! It now says “WOMEN and GIRLS only”.

I wasn’t expecting that but it makes me feel slightly positive for the future….

So fencing is a contact sport (hitting each other with metal swords) and has some instances of actual physical contact that actual physical strength matters a lot.

Deliberate hard hitting isn't allowed (plus tactically ineffective) but collision due to errors is an issue.

As for male clubmates changing tactics against me/less experienced fencers/younger fencers it's pretty standard as there's no point repeating an easy "win" point when you can work on something else that you're not ready to execute against a faster/taller opponent, because the "easy" option (that you can do already) would not necessarily be available against a person of equal height/power.

Like I said, small sport without the numbers for training just with your own category, we've worked out a way to make training (and non ranking competitions) work which would be fully trans inclusive...

Quietly pleased with the guidance but mainly because it is exactly the kind of balanced discourse we’ve been crying out for for the past few years, it’s clearly considered the evidence on all sides and come to fair conclusions that are inclusive without putting anyone at risk. Now can we do the same with every other facet of this “debate”!

Like I said, small sport without the numbers for training just with your own category, we've worked out a way to make training (and non ranking competitions) work which would be fully trans inclusive...

As long as the TW agreed to fence like a man and make the changes that a man would make when fencing with a woman.

@borntobequiet

I used to coach rowing. Take a girls’ J16 quad scull. Remove a trained, reasonably competent, fit girl and replace with a trained, reasonably competent, fit boy of the same age. Result: boat goes faster. Every time. Even if said boy is physically smaller and lighter than said girl.

My son and daughter (late teens/early 20s) are the same height and near enough same weight. They can share clothes. She’s a wide shouldered, strongly built girl. If anything, she’s fitter than he is.

Yet he easily outruns her, out-wrestles her and out-cycles her.

Physical contests should not be mixed sex.

ignores the lived experiences of trans people

If I'm not mistaken, the lived experiences of OMAB trans people includes male puberty. This report certainly does not ignore that lived experience.

When I run parkrun, I want to be the fastest female/woman in my age category. I don't want it to be mixed-sex, as it won't be the truth. That's why we split it in the first place!

My DH ran parkrun at the weekend for the first time in two years and came first, that simply isn't a target for 99%+ of female runners. He even walked three times! Pesky man with pesky longer legs and pesky male physiology that's just all round faster/stronger.

@Mumoftwoinprimary

This is interesting - I am involved in a sport that has been mentioned above as not being great for women. I am due to go to a women’s event soon. When I booked on it said something along the lines of “for those who identify as women or non binary”. I have just logged onto it to try and get the exact wording and it has changed! It now says “WOMEN and GIRLS only”.

I wasn’t expecting that but it makes me feel slightly positive for the future….

I've seen a couple of events in my area so the same. It's so tempting to ask them if its for male or female non-binary people

My son and daughter (late teens/early 20s) are the same height and near enough same weight. They can share clothes. She’s a wide shouldered, strongly built girl. If anything, she’s fitter than he is. Yet he easily outruns her, out-wrestles her and out-cycles her.
Same - mine are both students, and unfit DS is easily vastly stronger than fit DD, even though they are of similar height and size.

Looking for mis-matches in a competitive game are part of the strategies & tactics that give good teams an edge - for example when I played rugby, building the phases so that we ended up with one of our backs in a straight race against a forward or two - a clear advantage every time.
When I play mixed sex touch rugby, the mismatches are always about getting a male player opposite a female player, as there is always an advantage, and that is part of the game in that specific mixed discipline. There are rules about having a balance of numbers of players of each sex on the pitch at any one time, and then after that, the physical differences become part of the game. It's tactically enjoyable and rewarding. But will only work in TOUCH rugby, for obvious reasons.

@McDuffy

When I run parkrun, I want to be the fastest female/woman in my age category. I don't want it to be mixed-sex, as it won't be the truth. That's why we split it in the first place!

My DH ran parkrun at the weekend for the first time in two years and came first, that simply isn't a target for 99%+ of female runners. He even walked three times! Pesky man with pesky longer legs and pesky male physiology that's just all round faster/stronger.

Yes! Let's not be too quick to hand over our protected female category at mass participation races, small local races, or at events like parkrun which are races in all but name. Or play fast and loose with female age group category positions and course records in cyclosportives or open water swimming events. Some of us oldsters are quite competitive and aren't prepared to settle for just competing with ourselves.

Many years ago, I used to be very active in Karate. There weren't many women, so we would practice with the men. But all competitions were against other women. Now, I was hit many times, but it was a man who broke my nose. Believe me, men hit considerably harder than women do because they are considerably stronger and have a longer reach.

Stonewall :

The new guidance on trans inclusion in sport, released by the Sports Councils Equality Group, makes some harmful assumptions.

It assumes that there is an inherent conflict between inclusion, fairness and safety. In reality, the three go hand in hand.

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1443542488879411204?s=19

I've linked to this website before but high school boys vastly outperform elite women athletes in every category of track and filed and dominate swimming.

boysvswomen.com/#/

Stonewall
@stonewalluk

The truth is that trans women are already participating in sports, without any evidence of unfair advantages or safety risks.

The guidance fails to properly reflect that in its data, and serves only to create confusing distinctions for sporting bodies to navigate.

Well there’s some complete rubbish flat out lies straightaway from Stonewall.

'Will you prioritise females or allow males to cheat'?

Sadly, we can guess the answer.

Stonewall need to be properly investigated and stopped from lobbying and being a charity closely followed by Mermaids.

It assumes that there is an inherent conflict between inclusion, fairness and safety. In reality, the three go hand in hand.

There are times I find the emoji selection on MN a tad limiting.