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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

AIBU to actually be starting to like the term cis?

671 replies

newnameday · 28/09/2021 10:24

Hopefully this is allowed. Not bashing anyone.

I hated the term cis however this morning it hit me that we may be better embracing it if we can't eradicate it.

We have TWAW etc. But in the next however many years, we may find it easier, for example you're on a dating site "cis woman seeking cis man" therefore you will (hopefully) link with genetically male partners. Rather than "seeking a man" and you may possibly end up with a trans man. Again, no judgement or bashing, however I only ever wanted to be with someone who was genetically male, it's just my preference and I should be able to state this in a simple way.

So you would be able to request a man (if happy with cis or trans man) or woman, a cis man/woman and the subsections of lesbian or gay.

Prepared to be told IABU and sure that someone will likely be able to point out why this is bad. I'm not wanting this to be a bashing thread. I'm just starting to think the term may become useful in the not-too-distant future.

Also prepared this may end up deleted.

OP posts:
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5
RainbowBriteUk · 28/09/2021 12:32

@SoupDragon

Transwomen are women

No, transwomen are transwomen. I'm more than happy to treat them as women but, if a qualifier is needed to differentiate, it's that they are transwomen.

They identify as women and if they want to call themselves women and use her/she etc then that's mighty fine by me.
RainbowBriteUk · 28/09/2021 12:33

@SoupDragon Oh yea, throw the sexism card in there. Transphobia is alive and well on Mumsnet!!!

SoupDragon · 28/09/2021 12:34

They identify as women and if they want to call themselves women and use her/she etc then that's mighty fine by me.

That doesn't make them a woman though, it makes them a transwomen if a qualifier is necessary. Like I said, I'm more than happy to treat them as a woman (although not where it comes to competitive sport).

Gumbomambo · 28/09/2021 12:34

What is transphobic about saying trans women can’t conceive a child? Surely that is a biological fact?

HandsOffMyRights · 28/09/2021 12:34

@RainbowBriteUk

The transphobia on this thread is just appalling.
Gaslighting, diversion and having to throw all the toys out the pram when you can't force women to comply because your argument is so weak, is what's appalling.
herecomesthsun · 28/09/2021 12:35

i'm a woman. I don't like the word cis.

If a Transwoman wants to say they are a woman then I would politely do my utmost to refer to them in their chosen way / name/ pronoun etc.

However I don't think we should have people born with penises/ who have gone through male puberty competing in sport together directly with people with vaginas/ who have gone through female puberty, because of testosterone/ muscle development affecting performance etc.

Maybe there could be a third category (or more) that gets medals, so that transathletes get to compete (and get to win lots of medals) without natal women being put at an unfair disadvantage.

I also think that we don't have enough female loos, especially given that we menstruate, take little kids to the loo etc so we should switch to having

a) loos for women/ menstruators/ people with vaginas. And

b) all-purpose loos that everyone can use, including all types of people with penises.

kids get to go in either with their adult

SoupDragon · 28/09/2021 12:35

[quote RainbowBriteUk]@SoupDragon Oh yea, throw the sexism card in there. Transphobia is alive and well on Mumsnet!!![/quote]
It's not a "card". 🙄

What else would you call sidelining a biological sex?

You can take your personal insult and put it somewhere dark.

RainbowBriteUk · 28/09/2021 12:35

@HandsOffMyRights Except it's not an argument. I'm just saying my piece.

2miz · 28/09/2021 12:36

They identify as women and if they want to call themselves women and use her/she etc then that's mighty fine by me
That's not fine with me if that is used to access single sex spaces and sports etc

RainbowBriteUk · 28/09/2021 12:36

@SoupDragon Oooooh

Fariha31 · 28/09/2021 12:36

I tend not to like it when someone hostile to me is allowed to define what I am, historically its never worked out that great for the one being re-defined.

SoupDragon · 28/09/2021 12:36

🙄

Alekto · 28/09/2021 12:37

"If you are promoting trans rights orthodoxy - arguing that most female people are ‘cis’, and that being a woman is about having feminine feelings of submissiveness - you are buying liberty for only a few, while slapping chains on the rest of us."

This article is based on Amanda MacLean's talk given to the Communist Party GB’s Summer Communist University

weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1363/orthodoxy-and-its-discontents/

HandsOffMyRights · 28/09/2021 12:37

'Cis' now that's appalling..

Males using male supremacy to colonise the category of 'woman' is genius, and a lie which their control of the narrative enables.

RainbowBriteUk · 28/09/2021 12:38

@2miz

They identify as women and if they want to call themselves women and use her/she etc then that's mighty fine by me That's not fine with me if that is used to access single sex spaces and sports etc
So fucking what?! If they identify as a woman then of course they're entitled to use single sex spaces. Would you rather them use male and get stared at and treated unkindly because that's what happens.
ShrillSiren · 28/09/2021 12:38

@EmotionalSupportBear

i have no issue with the word Cis, i find the objection to it weird in all honesty.. but then a lot of my friends/social circle are American and its not seen as offensive.

Mumsnet is honestly the ONLY place i know where people find it offensive.

The reason you only see this discussion on MN is that it's deleted everywhere else. Reddit used to have a couple of gender-critical subs but they were all deleted while the ones with violence against women are still allowed. They even deleted the PCOS sub for a while because they complained it was exclusionary. Have a think why that is?

Do you think that all people that aren't visibly talking about this are on board with it? Most people just keep quiet or else they're called a transphobe or a nazi or get death threats.

What would happen within your own friend group if someone started questioning this? Would they be accepted or cast out as a transphobe? Could that be why people keep quiet apart from anonymously?

scarpa · 28/09/2021 12:38

Happy to be called cis. It's becoming more widely used, I have no problem sharing the word woman, and it's a useful distinguisher in some circumstances.

RainbowBriteUk · 28/09/2021 12:39

@HandsOffMyRights

'Cis' now that's appalling..

Males using male supremacy to colonise the category of 'woman' is genius, and a lie which their control of the narrative enables.

Do you think this is true of every trans person out there?!
2miz · 28/09/2021 12:40

Yes. I'd rather they do in the sex space that they are.
Women get starred at and treated unkindly all the time. Men can make their spaces safer out of kindness, why do we have to give up single sex space out of kindness?

RainbowBriteUk · 28/09/2021 12:41

Women trying so damn hard to campaign for feminism and women's rights that they ostracize those who identify as women. How lovely.

OurMamInHavianas · 28/09/2021 12:41

If Christian Women required all non-Christian women to refer to themselves as “Heathen Women”, would you be OK with that?

I don’t believe in the genederist religion, so being called “Cis’ is like an atheist being asked to put up with being called a Heathen. Even if it is intended to be neutral it is actually derogatory.

imjustanerd · 28/09/2021 12:41

YABU

Artichokeleaves · 28/09/2021 12:42

If they identify as a woman then of course they're entitled to use single sex spaces. Would you rather them use male and get stared at and treated unkindly because that's what happens.

What do you plan to do with all the women excluded from the female single sex space because they can't and won't access mixed sex spaces, often due to disability, trauma, faith, culture - or are you only bothered about making sure male people aren't treated unkindly?

What about the women currently staying in dangerously abusive relationships because they won't go into refuges or rape crisis centres because these have been made mixed sex?

What about the women who have been sexually abused in prison by male convicted sex offenders identifying as women?

Kindness isn't something females give to males. Inclusion means meeting all diversity of need. Shoving female need aside, minimising and dismissing them in order to value the same needs in male people? That's sexism.

RainbowBriteUk · 28/09/2021 12:43

@2miz

Yes. I'd rather they do in the sex space that they are. Women get starred at and treated unkindly all the time. Men can make their spaces safer out of kindness, why do we have to give up single sex space out of kindness?
It's not out of kindness, it's out of compassion and knowing that the trans person may have made a really difficult decision to become a woman and may have lost friends and family in that process. They're not doing it for the fun of it, are they?
Artichokeleaves · 28/09/2021 12:43

As to 'cis' - call yourself whatever you like.

Don't inflict your politics and labels on others. That to me is a word of oppression and I don't use it.