AIBU to actually be starting to like the term cis?

[newnameday]

Hopefully this is allowed. Not bashing anyone.

I hated the term cis however this morning it hit me that we may be better embracing it if we can't eradicate it.

We have TWAW etc. But in the next however many years, we may find it easier, for example you're on a dating site "cis woman seeking cis man" therefore you will (hopefully) link with genetically male partners. Rather than "seeking a man" and you may possibly end up with a trans man. Again, no judgement or bashing, however I only ever wanted to be with someone who was genetically male, it's just my preference and I should be able to state this in a simple way.

So you would be able to request a man (if happy with cis or trans man) or woman, a cis man/woman and the subsections of lesbian or gay.

Prepared to be told IABU and sure that someone will likely be able to point out why this is bad. I'm not wanting this to be a bashing thread. I'm just starting to think the term may become useful in the not-too-distant future.

Also prepared this may end up deleted.

The space in transwoman suggests that trans is just a subset of women rather than being a term all by itself

VladmirsPoutine

It comes down to a discussion about nouns and adjectives. The space indicates that it is descriptive, just like ‘tall woman’. They are just exactly the same as any other woman, no difference at all.

No space is indicative that the writer believes they are transwoman, a unique category that is not exactly like any other woman. And it may be subject to complaints because of this.

Yes the gap is seen as important.

Because it has to go-

Disabled women, black women, trans women, Muslim women etc.

To write it otherwise is not in accord with the usual way that other groups of women are written.

So there you go.

Writing transwomen is I think taken by some/ many.

As a microaggression, evidence that the writer is a bigot etc.

Thanks. That's certainly new to me. I hadn't ever considered it as meaningful beyond whatever my autocorrect felt like suggesting.

@Bizawit the whole point of feminism is centring human females, not pandering to the male ones.

I is not about prioritising one group over the other

You've been prioritizing males over females throughout this entire thread then say you're a feminist?

You said you couldn't use the prefix 'trans' without using 'cis' too as that would apparently give women some imaginary privilege over males who call themselves women.
That IS gaslighting. Classic DARVO. Turning those from the oppressed sex class into the oppressors.

There is a long history of white, middle class women trying to police the boundaries of the category woman

Nice you go for the classic TRA trope of claiming it's only middle class white women who have an issue with gender identity ideology. Do you realise that this narrative is mostly pushed by middle class white men?

The category women is based on sex. No policing needed. If you are not female than you are naturally excluded. Humans can't change sex.

Why do you think we need to 'include' males in our category anyway? They already have their own. Maybe they should try to 'widen the bandwith' of that instead.

Do you realise that transwomen go through so much heartache because they were born as someone they didn't want to be?

A lot of us might have wanted a different body! Healthier, more able-bodied, taller, stronger. We just have to make the best of what we've got. Encourage people to achieve their goals, by all means. But encouraging people to believe their (impossible) fantasies can come true is not an act of kindness.

How many women and girls around the world face the most appalling situations, treatment, laws, danger, have little access to or often no way to control how many babies they have. Who are condemned to a life of adhering to incredibly strict expectations with massive danger if seen to have not met them in some trivial way. To have no choice in who they marry. To be raped as a standard part of life. To face pregnancy after pregnancy with all the risks that brings and all the work and loss of freedom that children mean whether they want that or not.

I mean on and fucking on.

I imagine many fervently would love to have been born someone or somewhere else.

And minor point. As a group. Who knows what gender identities that have. They're all vagina people.

So if these new terms are a must.

Then their lives issues rapes etc.

Can only be reported on, awareness raised etc.

By using people with vaginas/ menstruators etc.

I have only managed to get one person to answer why the inconsistency in the news with the use of women v menstruators etc.

I was told that it's ok to use women girls in those situations because it was highly unlikely any had trans identities.

Ignoring-
Why wouldn't women in other countries have trans identities? They're invisible. They're not a different species to women here.
Saying cis wasn't suggested, using women was fine.

I mean what a load of rubbish.

@CatTerrier

Is CIS an acronym?

I think the Lancet has it as Cervix In Side.

I'm glad I've been married for 20+ years as this is all way to complicated! I do worry for my children though. I think they have the right to know if the person they are starting a relationship with was born female or for example trans. What if they want children in the future, that couldn't happen with a trans woman

@VladmirsPoutine

Thanks. That's certainly new to me. I hadn't ever considered it as meaningful beyond whatever my autocorrect felt like suggesting.

Snap. Apparently I'm now offensive without knowing it. Or PC because my phone autocorrects me.

@nopenotplaying

I'm glad I've been married for 20+ years as this is all way to complicated! I do worry for my children though. I think they have the right to know if the person they are starting a relationship with was born female or for example trans. What if they want children in the future, that couldn't happen with a trans woman

This is exactly my reasoning on the matter. The DC in the future. I feel bad for them.

I'm luckily settled and sorted, but I wonder what life the future holds. And you can't even express worry as it's transphobic.

Also someone will be along to say that just because you have reproductive organs, doesn't guarantee offspring, which is true. But it doesn't automatically discount the possibility of having a baby naturally. I don't think it's transphobic for someone to seek a partner they can naturally have babies with, if they are physically able to.

Your choice, but I’m a woman. I don’t need a précis to that. It seriously pisses me off!

@nopenotplaying

I'm glad I've been married for 20+ years as this is all way to complicated! I do worry for my children though. I think they have the right to know if the person they are starting a relationship with was born female or for example trans. What if they want children in the future, that couldn't happen with a trans woman

I think you are worrying a bit too much there!

Loads of trans people non binary or another from the long list that exists. Often minimal change in presentation if any.

Despite what is constantly stated, most TW do not pass. The physiological differences can't all be altered.

TM often pass better. Grow beards, voice deepens etc. Still will usually be short or unusually short for a male. Hands feet. And suspect (but don't know) that TM are likely to be more aware of how well they 'pass' and more likely to be honest with potential partners.

And when it's want to have children stage. Presumably they would be way past the sex point. And when it's clothes off time then I mean. Very few trans people have genital surgery and I don't blame them. And for various reasons there's no way a partner wouldn't realise when it's sex time.

So you are catastrophising somewhat IMO!

The bit that is shit is the time wasting.

Oh and the going on gay sites etc because you ID as lesbian or a gay man. IE you are opposite sex attracted and trying to get dates with homosexual people. That's really bad. Again I imagine that TM are less likely to be doing this.

Also someone will be along to say that just because you have reproductive organs, doesn't guarantee offspring, which is true. But it doesn't automatically discount the possibility of having a baby naturally. I don't think it's transphobic for someone to seek a partner they can naturally have babies with, if they are physically able to

A lot of the children put on blockers and cross sex hormones will be made sterile. The 'solution' given to them possibly wanting children in the future is that they can just buy a uterus haver to use as a human incubator. Simple eh?

@newnameday I’ve read and enjoyed the whole thread. Particularly the S Club 7 reference.

Nothing novel to add, except maybe that it makes me think of cis and trans fatty acids. (And can imagine some gender identity ideologists interpreting this as my commenting on their weight.)

Like most, I think cis is an offensive term.

OP you are catastrophising as well!

You believe there is an issue with transpeople getting dates, their date not having any inkling they are not the sex they said? I mean. Not that likely.

And if it happens-

You believe that all transpeople would be so duplicitous as to not mention it. Even when the relationship is moving along? So they're getting to know each other and one is lying about their childhood, experiences, changing names of their friends etc? Remembering it all? That's really hard and to carry that off and treat someone you are going out with like that is professional level shittery and excellent acting. Pretty unusual I'd have thought.

This focus on having babies. I mean most people don't wait long now. Many not at all really! It will be obvious.

And again. It's lesbians who are really getting clobbered. I mean yes gay men and lesbians have babies too but you say naturally. So het.

I am sure heterosexual will carry on meeting and having babies just fine.

In all of this dating is really a strange focus. And worrying about children in the future is very strange.

So you have decided to use cis yourself.

And this thread is to share your reasoning and maybe get others to think about it.

Because if the majority of women use cis.

It will be useful to your DC in the future. With problems with accidentally having relationships with trans people who are totally indistinguishable from the sex of their gender ID. Who are very good at acting, skilled at improvisation, have excellent memories. And are extremely duplicitous and have no ethics etc whatsoever.

To the point that they will try to start a family and it will not be revealed that it's impossible the PIV way?

That's ridiculous.

What if your child is gay? No PIV baby then. Or dates and settles down with a transperson?

What if they don't want children?

What then.

@NiceGerbil the original poster has accepted that cis is a bad idea. (Otherwise enjoying your posts. I often do. Not in a creepy way, just like the way you express things that I agree with better than I can!)

Oh thanks for the compliment!

The recent post from OP outlining concerns to do with heterosexual dating in the future seemed like a very strange thing to focus on with this general topic. To be anyway!

Oh and the going on gay sites etc because you ID as lesbian or a gay man. IE you are opposite sex attracted and trying to get dates with homosexual people. That's really bad. Again I imagine that TM are less likely to be doing this.

Sadly they're doing it a fair bit too. One transman kicked off at not being allowed in a gay sauna (that was only licensed for male nudity or something). They're all over grindr, looking very much like girls with blue hair half the time. I mean, they're less of a physical threat but there's every sign that gay men are suffering from a total lack of respect for their spaces too.

@Bizawit by all means report my post to MNHQ and ask them to delete it.

Threats aren't tolerated here and so if you report a threatening post it will disappear.

Unless, of course, you know perfectly well that my post wasn't even close to 'a threat' and you're just DARVOing.

I'm sure that's not the case though.