AIBU to actually be starting to like the term cis?

[newnameday]

Hopefully this is allowed. Not bashing anyone.

I hated the term cis however this morning it hit me that we may be better embracing it if we can't eradicate it.

We have TWAW etc. But in the next however many years, we may find it easier, for example you're on a dating site "cis woman seeking cis man" therefore you will (hopefully) link with genetically male partners. Rather than "seeking a man" and you may possibly end up with a trans man. Again, no judgement or bashing, however I only ever wanted to be with someone who was genetically male, it's just my preference and I should be able to state this in a simple way.

So you would be able to request a man (if happy with cis or trans man) or woman, a cis man/woman and the subsections of lesbian or gay.

Prepared to be told IABU and sure that someone will likely be able to point out why this is bad. I'm not wanting this to be a bashing thread. I'm just starting to think the term may become useful in the not-too-distant future.

Also prepared this may end up deleted.

[quote VladmirsPoutine]Transwomen can and do face violence. See BBC article here from just today

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-58718183[/quote]
Think you'll find a few things relevant:

Nobody has ever said they don't experience violence. Just that they are not the UK cohort that experiences most/the worst violence

That story has been covered here today and nobody denied it happened or that it was horrendous.

The perpetrator was discussed. Posters here blamed him

Posters across the Twitterverse blamed women, and Glinner!

So your point is...?

[quote VladmirsPoutine]Transwomen can and do face violence. See BBC article here from just today

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-58718183[/quote]
And that is awful. Still doesn't mean that women should give away the words we have to describe ourselves.

Nor does it mean that Transwomen are more vulnerable and/ or oppressed in our society than women are.

It really does. It never ceases to amaze me how some think they can demand it, too.

Women are not to be defined in relation to men because they want to be defined as the women they refuse to give a definition to!

No wonder Bizawit flounders in their quest for clarity.

As a woman who is neither a "cis woman" nor an FTM trans person, it excludes me, so no. Obviously I have nothing in common with many MTF trans people beyond sharing the same species.

Sorry, my post was in response to pigsDOfly

Very sad case Vladimir but thankfully so very rare. Hope they make a full recovery.

When I was at university, some feminist women didn't want to be called women as the derivation is womb-men.

They suggested wimmin instead.

How the battlelines have changed.

[quote GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]@Bizawit
I don’t really feel safe in this space
WHAT?
You're finding WORDS so scary that you don't feel 'safe'? You're anonymous, we're anonymous, no one is about to dox you or offer rape threats or any of the shit that many, many GC women have taken.

Think about the how the women in WiSpa felt. That is 'not feeling safe'.

That is where this bullshit takes us.

Enjoy your echo chamber
Well, if you can't stand up and argue against us, because we're so bloody scary... Or perhaps you can't argue against us because you haven't any arguments? Is that it?[/quote]

"I don't feel safe" is just a get out jail free card when you have no response because WTF? How can you feel unsafe, as you say?

People questioning your ideas makes you feel threatened? Laughable

Cis" literally does just mean someone who identifies with the sex they were born as.

This would only make sense if "cis women" and "trans women" were both female. I don't subscribe to your ideology, so I'm not going to buy into a belief system that says any males are a type of women.

@BaronessWrongCrowd

Rtft? What the hell does that mean. I assume you mean read the fucking thread?

I don’t have time to read the fucking thread. I work, I have children, I have elderly parents, I have a million fucking things to do.

If that’s what you meant then you can foxtrot Oscar.

I have read the whole fucking thread, and made a number of comments, and I can’t see the OP’s issue with your comment, or how it is apparent that you haven’t rtft!

@HummingBeeBox

YABU how about we keep the word women and anyone else can come up with their own word?

Exactly women are women.

People who are biological men and now want to be women are trans women or think of any other appropriate name but woman born male, woman formally name, woman but biologically male.... whatever suits. Just leave women as woman

[quote VladmirsPoutine]Transwomen can and do face violence. See BBC article here from just today

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-58718183[/quote]
Of course they do, another victim of male violence.

But the point being made is that TRA's claim that transwomen are being murdered all the time in the UK which, as all evidence proves, is clearly not true

Oh dear auto correct

But is eg

Woman formally male

If you are happy to use the term 'cis woman' then you are inherently accepting that you believe there are other types of women than those that are biologically adult human females. You may be happy to do that OP, and if you are then sure, crack on and use the term 'cis' to describe yourself, but don't impose that on anyone else.

This. Don't impose your personal ideological beliefs on me, I reject them.

@JoodyBlue

No. Cis woman means identifying oneself as compliant with "feminine" adjectives. What might they be? Weak as opposed to strong? Soft as opposed to hard? Short as opposed to tall? Decorative as opposed to functional? Useful as opposed to educated? Do you see the problem? What does feminine gender mean for us to identify with it? Accepting Cis as as a term is acceptance of stereotyping femaleness and maleness into behavioural boxes. Just no!!!!!

Obviously I see the problem, as you would know if you read the full thread 🤦‍♀️ or at least my posts. Nothing you have said is new to the other posters.

[quote VladmirsPoutine]Transwomen can and do face violence. See BBC article here from just today

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-58718183[/quote]

The kind of shit head who attacks trans women is the exact same violent male who attacks women too. Both groups are at risk from people like this.

i really don't, i'm quite happy in my non-transphobic social circles thanks.

Quite tiny echo chambery ones, if you think most women are happy to use "cis" and give up their rights to safety, privacy and dignity and the right to be treated as a female sex class to males.

Obviously I see the problem, as you would know if you read the full thread 🤦‍♀️ or at least my posts. Nothing you have said is new to the other posters.

I wasn’t aware that on MN the rule was that you had to have read every single post and come up with a totally unique point to be allowed to contribute to the discussion, OP.

Believe we women off mumsnet are furious about all this too. I was at a woman's event last night and someone bravely brought up this topic.

They ALL knew about it, we talked about cis, the lancet front page, labour's cervix nonsense etc etc. I was amazed at the fury.

These conversations are whispered at the moment but believe me the dam will burst at some point.

I do believe you, it's all so overbearing and arrogant and arbitrated by male people of whatever identity

@BaronessWrongCrowd

Rtft? What the hell does that mean. I assume you mean read the fucking thread?

I don’t have time to read the fucking thread. I work, I have children, I have elderly parents, I have a million fucking things to do.

If that’s what you meant then you can foxtrot Oscar.

Not so aggressive, just read the full thread.

There's a handy view OP option. You can then see that I fully moved past my thoughts dozens of posts ago.

If you're too busy to read to see where the post is up to, you're surely too busy to post the exact same thing that's been posted multiple times.

Fair enough if I had dug my heels in. But I've fully accepted I was unreasonable, it doesn't need to be said again. Especially if it's taking away from your busy, busy day.

This thread started in AIBU

There was a major gear change when it ended up in the Feminism: sex and gender discussions board, and the sense of who had been arguing what in the conversation got a bit lost

though it has been a very interesting read.

Many people (whether those on this thread like it or not) will use women as an overarching term to include both cis women and transwomen.

They really don't. They use it as an overarching term to include "women and some males who really make an effort to pass and have "sex change" surgery". Not the broader group.

@herecomesthsun

When I was at university, some feminist women didn't want to be called women as the derivation is womb-men.

They suggested wimmin instead.

How the battlelines have changed.

I am almost certain the word woman derives from 'wifman'. The meaning of the word 'wife' was indistinguishable from the meaning of the word 'woman'. Hence 'midwife' means 'with woman'.

But yes, I believe in the 1970s some feminists preferred the term 'wimmin' so as not to be defined in relation to men.

#off topic#

DoNotGetADog

I have read the whole fucking thread, and made a number of comments, and I can’t see the OP’s issue with your comment, or how it is apparent that you haven’t rtft!

Because the poster was saying I may want to denigrate myself. After I've said multiple times that I hold my hands up and I was wrong. I don't need to be told again and again. And I obviously don't want to "denigrate myself" as I've agreed with posters that I wasn't thinking it through.

Also, as they've admitted they haven't read it, I guess my assumption wasn't wrong.

@newnameday fair dos :) I hadn't read the full thread. To be fair I have read hundreds of threads walking through these arguments over the years. Given a lot of thought to the subject, sadly still taking up a lot of headspace that could be given to something more creative. Sometimes I feel like I'm going mad. Sorry if my post seemed to be driving a point home. I'm glad my own post was unoriginal though not suprised