AIBU to actually be starting to like the term cis?

[newnameday]

Hopefully this is allowed. Not bashing anyone.

I hated the term cis however this morning it hit me that we may be better embracing it if we can't eradicate it.

We have TWAW etc. But in the next however many years, we may find it easier, for example you're on a dating site "cis woman seeking cis man" therefore you will (hopefully) link with genetically male partners. Rather than "seeking a man" and you may possibly end up with a trans man. Again, no judgement or bashing, however I only ever wanted to be with someone who was genetically male, it's just my preference and I should be able to state this in a simple way.

So you would be able to request a man (if happy with cis or trans man) or woman, a cis man/woman and the subsections of lesbian or gay.

Prepared to be told IABU and sure that someone will likely be able to point out why this is bad. I'm not wanting this to be a bashing thread. I'm just starting to think the term may become useful in the not-too-distant future.

Also prepared this may end up deleted.

@00100001

YABU.

Women are women

Transwomen are transwomen.

THIS

100% WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO GET THIS THROUGH TO PEOPLE.

“I have friends who are women but are biologically male. I have friends who are biologically female and identify as women. They're both women.”

Ummmm….. no.

@CatsArePeople

What about the examples a pp just gave you : “white woman”, “able bodied woman” , “straight woman” etc. Or do you think these “qualifiers” are not required either?

it always boils down to "black women = men"
gotta love the woke racism.

I think it’s ridiculous to compare these qualifiers with “cis.”

White women are women, able-bodied women are women, straight women are women. Without a qualifier, the term “women” is still correct for all of these women. It’s only if you want to know more specifically about them that they are needed. But they do give you more information than just “women.”

“Cis” doesn’t do this though. “Cis” women are just women. If they are not “cis” women then they are not actual women.

You may as well say “real women” or “actual women”, but why should women have to do that? Transwomen are in actual fact men, and we all know that really. But if they want to call themselves transwomen then fine, but they don’t get to then rename actual women as “cis”- they are just women.

@Fariha31

I have a question for posters. Considering that transition produces worse outcomes for individuals undergoing it, how can anyone who claims to care about trans people support medical intervention?

I wonder this too. Is it attention-seeking by proxy? It seems to be cheerleading trans people into taking actions without any cost to themselves.

Although most don’t actually do any physical transition. Or only have “top surgery”.

Why say "cis" when "real" is perfectly straightforward and easier?

Whether I like it or not, my chromosomes (XX) do define me. They mean I went through female puberty (remember all that fun with bra-strap pinging and having to wear white shorts for PE?). They mean I have to go for smear tests. That I have to worry about contraception. That my physical and mental health may be permanently damaged by pregnancy. That I have the menopause to look forward to. Biological reality does not care about feelings or ideas. Why do we suddenly have to pretend that the word "woman" is divorced from biology?

Reducing someone's existence & feelings to "facts" seems very silly.

How does that work for writing laws?

I have friends who are women but are biologically male. I have friends who are biologically female and identify as women. They're both women

Really?
Isn’t it funny how women couldn’t identify out of their oppression back when we couldn’t vote, or own a bank account or be raped by our husbands. Men were pretty sure that sex mattered then.

If we went back to those times, which of your “women” friends would be banned from voting do you think?

Ah but now there are trans women claiming to be cis, as they feel they were born women and biology is irrelevant. (See India Willoughby).

So they the trans women, women and cis women. Which leaves us as cervix and vagina havers.

Yey!

@RainbowBriteUk

Thread reported.

Oh dear.

I'm telling!!!

The cry of someone who feels they've lost the argument.

Reducing someone's existence & feelings to "facts" seems very silly.

What if I said I felt like I was 3 years old and wanted to enrol myself in nursery and have a nursery nurse change my soiled nappy?

What if said I felt like I was 70 and they should be paying me a pension?

Facts matter FFs. Reality matters. Making laws around fluid concepts like gender is lunacy. Like age sex is a fact and cannot be changed. What's silly is people insisting it can.

@Naunet

I have friends who are women but are biologically male. I have friends who are biologically female and identify as women. They're both women

Really?
Isn’t it funny how women couldn’t identify out of their oppression back when we couldn’t vote, or own a bank account or be raped by our husbands. Men were pretty sure that sex mattered then.

If we went back to those times, which of your “women” friends would be banned from voting do you think?

Yup. This is a self-indulgent, Western, middle-class luxury belief.

As if the women and girls in Afghanistan get to identify out of being female by saying some magic words.

I think the term "cis" is such a red flag for women because we know what men are like and we know how a patriarchal society works - we are always expected to be the ones who move aside and give in, and when we give a little they take the lot.
We are wise to this and we've had millennia to strategise around it.
There are some things we cannot bend on, and words that describe our biological reality is one of those things.
There are no sub-categories of men or women. Rejecting terms like cis and trans is a way of asserting your stance in reality. Using language in sly ways is insidious and leads to dangerous group-think and harmful societal changes.

@WoodchipNightmares

Personally I find it a useful shorthand for someone who identifies with the sex they were born as.

I've no issues with being called a cis woman - any more than I have with being called a white woman, straight woman, Liverpudlian woman, able bodied woman.

I agree. This has been my perspective since hearing the term cis. To me it’s just a way of making a clarification, when needed. In everyday chat It probably isn’t needed but in some contexts it’s useful.

Never occurred to me that people would find it offensive 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Comedycook

Exactly what it says

Helpful

Sorry, given the general tone of the thread, I wasn’t sure if it was a genuine question/ curiosity or not.

There are women, assigned female at birth, who identify as women, yet are genetically male. For example, women with CAIS:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

Fuck that. I am not, nor will I ever be 'cis'. I am a woman. Female. That's it.

@Grasshopper90 well now you know that quite a few women find it offensive

just as transpeople don't like being described in a way they find uncomfortable

@Nahhh

I’d prefer a trans man to differentiate himself as a trans man than a man calling himself a cis man

This is my ideal also but with the TWAW etc I don't see it happening which is why I thought coming at it from something we CAN change may have been the way to do it.

*There are women, assigned female at birth, who identify as women, yet are genetically male. For example, women with CAIS:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome*

Yes, this is one of a few specific and rare medical conditions known as DSD. People with DSD have repeatedly asked not to be dragged into the trans debate.

If we start calling ourselves 'cis', then the TRAs will just want 'cis' as well. In fact it's already happening, cf. the fragrant India Willoughby and her imaginary cervix.

The bottom line is that women cannot have anything for themselves. Not words, not spaces, not even body parts.

They just want us to keep budging up until we fall off the bench completely.

@Rainbowshit

Reducing someone's existence & feelings to "facts" seems very silly.

What if I said I felt like I was 3 years old and wanted to enrol myself in nursery and have a nursery nurse change my soiled nappy?

What if said I felt like I was 70 and they should be paying me a pension?

Facts matter FFs. Reality matters. Making laws around fluid concepts like gender is lunacy. Like age sex is a fact and cannot be changed. What's silly is people insisting it can.

This.

As a thought
Is it OK for my anorexic friend to self-identify as morbidly obese?
Should we treat her as morbidly obese and support her in losing weight?
Should we encourage her to go to into slimming groups and talk about the problems she has being morbidly obese, or would that be inappropriate for her and possibly offensive to the morbidly obese people who have attended?

@RainbowBriteUk

You are conflating sex with gender.

And transwomen are transwomen.

They can call themselves women, they can call themselves unicorns. They're still male. No amount of wishing, choosing of pronouns and invasion of female spaces will change that.

You can like whatever you want. That's the beauty of free speech. The issue is when speech is compelled.

I'm not cis. I'm a woman. And if a man used cis in a dating profile, that would be a clear sign that we weren't a match.

WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN

If you use the word 'cis' then you have to use the word 'trans', because there's no way you could have cis women and women. So what's the point? Might as well have women and trans women.