AIBU to actually be starting to like the term cis?

[newnameday]

Hopefully this is allowed. Not bashing anyone.

I hated the term cis however this morning it hit me that we may be better embracing it if we can't eradicate it.

We have TWAW etc. But in the next however many years, we may find it easier, for example you're on a dating site "cis woman seeking cis man" therefore you will (hopefully) link with genetically male partners. Rather than "seeking a man" and you may possibly end up with a trans man. Again, no judgement or bashing, however I only ever wanted to be with someone who was genetically male, it's just my preference and I should be able to state this in a simple way.

So you would be able to request a man (if happy with cis or trans man) or woman, a cis man/woman and the subsections of lesbian or gay.

Prepared to be told IABU and sure that someone will likely be able to point out why this is bad. I'm not wanting this to be a bashing thread. I'm just starting to think the term may become useful in the not-too-distant future.

Also prepared this may end up deleted.

@HipTightOnions

Mumsnet is honestly the ONLY place i know where people find it offensive.

Perhaps Mumsnet is the only place you know where women have given serious thought to the implications?

Also, lots of people won't have heard the term cos unless they're young, have a liberal circle or on Twitter.

I don't think many religious people accept this cis nonsense. Bearing in mind the world goes beyond the UK and the US.

I don't define my entire existence by my chromosomes and I feel woman enough to not feel like my womanhood is threatened by other people wanting to describe themselves as female.

Some women in this thread seem really sad and pathetic to be honest - you don't like it when they are called "women" but you also don't want to be called a "cis woman" so essentially the only acceptable option to you is to exclude them and label them as "trans women". If your entire womanhood relies on your chromosomes then what are you really? An incubator essentially as that's the purpose of you having these chromosomes and associated reproductive organs. Congrats.

Human beings cannot change sex. Sex is immutable. That is not a value judgement, it is a simple statement of biological reality. 'Sex change' surgery is cosmetic changes to emulate certain sexual characteristics but the skeleton, musculature system, chromosomes etc etc remain the same.

This insistence that human beings can change sex (with 'evidence' often consisting of YouTube videos) is just dishonest and is often coupled with screams of 'transphobe!' to anyone who disagrees to enforce the chilling effect.

Do you realise that transwomen go through so much heartache because they were born as someone they didn't want to be?

Tough. They're not women and never will be, no matter how much surgery or hormones they have.

If you're happy sharing the word woman why do you need another word?

Deep down they know women and trans women are different otherwise there's no need for it. If sex is so irrelevant, you know...

You cant choose to describe yourself as female - you either are or arent'

I am a woman. a man that identifies as a woman or would like to live as/be seen as a woman, for whatever reason, is a transwoman. That's it. For me and most women.

It's all bollocks.

scarpa
It only applies to men.
And how do you know?

Not every man is as open about it as Grayson Perry
nationalpost.com/opinion/barbara-kay-absolutist-dogma-is-chilling-transgender-research

@Sonarl

You cant choose to describe yourself as female - you either are or arent'

I am a woman. a man that identifies as a woman or would like to live as/be seen as a woman, for whatever reason, is a transwoman. That's it. For me and most women.

Exactly.

The world has gone f'ing mad.

Do you realise that transwomen go through so much heartache because they were born as someone they didn't want to be?

Do you realise how many abused and raped women didn't want to be and don't want to see penises when they are vulnerable in rape shelters and changing rooms?

Why is one group of people's pain more important than anothers?

@RainbowBriteUk

They're not painting them all with the same stick. They are saying transwomen were born male, remain male all their lives and will die male. No matter how much surgery or hormones or anything else.

Your trans friends may be the loveliest people but this isn't about individuals. You have compassion for them, but why no compassion for women who cannot share spaces with males. No one can be compelled to believe that someone has actually changed sex.

Do you realise that your arguments eventually lead to women being raped in prisons by fully intact males that say that they are women? Well, in your words, they are women so where else would they be? Do you see the problem yet?

And before it's thrown out there, I do not believe that the majority of trans people are violent/sex offenders or anything else. But allowing males (of any identity) into women's spaces is never going to end well.

I have a question for posters.
Considering that transition produces worse outcomes for individuals undergoing it, how can anyone who claims to care about trans people support medical intervention?

@Sunflowers095

I don't define my entire existence by my chromosomes and I feel woman enough to not feel like my womanhood is threatened by other people wanting to describe themselves as female.

Some women in this thread seem really sad and pathetic to be honest - you don't like it when they are called "women" but you also don't want to be called a "cis woman" so essentially the only acceptable option to you is to exclude them and label them as "trans women". If your entire womanhood relies on your chromosomes then what are you really? An incubator essentially as that's the purpose of you having these chromosomes and associated reproductive organs. Congrats.

Are the women in prison who don’t want to be locked up with male rapists who have suddenly found their “feminine side”, sad and pathetic? Are young women in sport being forced to compete against male bodied people, sad and pathetic if they object? Are women avoiding rape crisis centres because they can’t stand to talk about their trauma in front of a male, sad and pathetic?

Why is it wrong to define women by their biology, as we do with all creatures, but right to define them by their performance or stereotypes? How is that progressive?

@FrankButchersDickieBow

I am not cis. I am not the opposite of a transwoman. I am a woman. I am not a subset of women.

This.

Ok, so what if they've had male to female surgery?

Reassignment surgery is a cosmetic procedure to alleviate gender dysphoria. You'd have to be a moron to think that the end product of that surgery changes your sex.

We cannot recreate a penis or vagina.

Taking melanin shots or bleaching your skin doesn't change your ethnicity. surgery doesn't change your sex.

@Sunflowers095

I don't define my entire existence by my chromosomes and I feel woman enough to not feel like my womanhood is threatened by other people wanting to describe themselves as female.

Some women in this thread seem really sad and pathetic to be honest - you don't like it when they are called "women" but you also don't want to be called a "cis woman" so essentially the only acceptable option to you is to exclude them and label them as "trans women". If your entire womanhood relies on your chromosomes then what are you really? An incubator essentially as that's the purpose of you having these chromosomes and associated reproductive organs. Congrats.

And many of us don’t define ourselves by stereotypes.

Literally nothing about me apart from my chromosomes and reproductive organs makes me a woman.

I don’t believe in male or female brains or male or female psyches. And those concepts have been used against me and many other women during our lives - how about you try being kind to us for once?

Do you realise that transwomen go through so much heartache because they were born as someone they didn't want to be?

Plenty of us are born without the physical attributes we want. We generally have to learn to accept it. I don't go round threatening to kill myself because I don't look the way I want.

@Sunflowers095

How do you feel like a woman? What does it actually feel like?

I don't feel like a woman, I just am one because I was born female and grew to adulthood. That's it. No value judgement. No need to be feminine. No need to have kids. Nothing but that one simple biological fact.

Believe we women off mumsnet are furious about all this too. I was at a woman's event last night and someone bravely brought up this topic.

They ALL knew about it, we talked about cis, the lancet front page, labour's cervix nonsense etc etc. I was amazed at the fury.

These conversations are whispered at the moment but believe me the dam will burst at some point.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

I cannot ever remember hearing or reading the words 'cis man'. I wonder why that is?

Ok read this so many times today. Read the OP. I specifically mention both cis woman and cis man.

There's one place you read it.

If you, at the very least, read the OP.

I may have had a lapse in judgement as to why I previously disliked cis. I've admitted that. Blame illness mixed with baby brain or something. But this was not specific to women.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about. If someone wants to say they are Cisgender then let them, it doesn't make them a lesser person. It's like all the fuss made on here about bio-mum. Both are factual statements.

[quote ShrillSiren]@Sunflowers095

How do you feel like a woman? What does it actually feel like?

I don't feel like a woman, I just am one because I was born female and grew to adulthood. That's it. No value judgement. No need to be feminine. No need to have kids. Nothing but that one simple biological fact.[/quote]
Reducing people's

Reducing someone's existence & feelings to "facts" seems very silly. Men are stronger than women - that's a biological fact. Should men be allowed to use that advantage? In nature, non consensual sex exists, is that ok for us too because it's a biological fact?

No, because we evolved past that. And we don't simply rely on the laws of nature as we have progressed and we're capable of grasping that better systems can exist.

If someone wants to say they are Cisgender then let them, it doesn't make them a lesser person. It's like all the fuss made on here about bio-mum. Both are factual statements.

It’s not a factual statement. It relies on a belief that people have an internal sense of gender which may or may not match their sex. Not only is there no evidence, there’s not even a coherent description of what this means.

YABU. I'm not a subset of women.

I think it's been found that 'babybrain' isn't a thing, and that mothers instead, experience a sharpening of their mental acuity. Probably for survival of the offspring.

Reducing someone's existence & feelings to "facts" seems very silly

But that’s the point! I was born female, that’s my biology, simple. It doesn’t define who I am, unless you subscribe to old fashioned stereotypes. Their existence and feelings are completely separate from their biology. They’re male, but they can still embrace female stereotypes if they want, it just doesn’t change their biology and no one should be forced to pretend that it does.