More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!

[Cwenthryth]

I just saw this on Twitter

twitter.com/profalices/status/1442415750497509380?s=21

Between 2012 and 2018, 436 individuals prosecuted for rape in England and Wales were recorded as women.
www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/committees/current-and-previous-committees/session-6-citizen-participation-and-public-petitions-committee/correspondence/2021/pe1876_h-professor-alice-sullivan-submission-of-27-august-2021

I’m shocked at this statistic. Yes, a small proportion of these may be women charged with rape by joint enterprise. Prof Sullivan posted on Twitter she has requested to separate out those cases. But, as under the law in England and Wales, rape is a crime committed with a penis….. so these (alleged) rapists are “bodies with penises” being recorded as women in crime stats. So transwomen, right? So what does this mean….436 (alleged) transwomen rapists in 6 years? That is more than one a week. In England & Wales.

Have I misunderstood that? I’m really shocked.

I mean, 'transwomen are women' is just nonsense. It's semantics, you understand? It's made up.

Transwomen are born male, that is the actual meaning of the word.

You can't change sex. It's not possible to change sex.

None of this is rocket science. I just find it absolutely mind blowing that anyone has been taken in by such vacuous nonsense for a nano second. Government! Scientists, FGS! O tempora, o mores, etc.

You think my mask has slipped? I’m not wearing one!

Some men claim they are women, but they aren’t. It’s very straightforward as we don’t have the medical know how or expertise to change anyone’s sex.

I realise that those men are desperately trying to change the meaning of the word “woman” so it includes them, but ultimately everyone knows that men are not women, even those who deny it.

The racist argument is another attempt to equate women fighting to retain their rights to hateful groups in history, jellyfrizz. There’s nothing more complicated than that involved.

I can never understand why the racist argument is brought into this.

Because of the parallel. Prejudice follows the same patterns. Always has. And it's useful to take someone's position on one controversial issue and extrapolate that to another that is much more black and white - tends to focus the mind when people realise that their arguments against transgender rights are exactly the same arguments that racists make against racial equality...

Sometimes segregation IS important, to right historic inequalities or protect the vulnerable for instance.

Interesting point. I'm struggling to think of a legit example where that could be justified as a long term policy position to maintain segregation though.

A parallel analogy would need to be when the segregation is of benefit to the more vulnerable class. Women are not the whites in a racial analogy. A parallel analogy would be closer to white people identifying as black in order to claim a scholarship only open to people of colour.

The point you're making here is about pretence though. You're talking about white people pretending to be black to get a benefit (although Chris Rock does an excellent routine on why this doesn't happen).

So are you saying that transgender women are pretending to be women?

Yes, it's not something anyone needs to mask robin, but bless you for thinking anyone would be trying to hide the fact that males are not females.

Transwomen are male, robin. HTH.

Personally, I think the world would be a much better place if gender barriers were removed entirely
No one here cares about "gender barriers". We do however think that sex-based barriers are important for protecting the vulnerable.

@robinr66

The proportion of rape allegations to convictions has fallen during the same period.

Also, the way that rape convictions were counted changed in 2016. The data itself explicitly highlights that you cannot compare years and cannot draw any conclusions about trends.

You certainly can’t draw any conclusions if you don’t know what is being reported.

Trans women are women. Allowing a trans woman to use a female toilet isn't allowing a man to use it - it's allowing a woman to use it.

@robinr66 - Transwomen are not women.

Trans women are women

Is Rachel Dolezal black? Is Oli London Korean? Is Emile Ratelband 20 years younger than his birth certificate states?

Hey, I care about gender barriers! I have one in the boot of my car, underneath two bags that need to go to the charity shop. It's probably in need of a good boilwash and air drying, but it does come in handy occasionally, even if more for nostalgia than any genuine practical need.

this is not a personal attack but an explanation of why I said I thought this poster was a transphobe and prejudiced. I'm trying to explain what I meant, not denigrate

and then goes on to an very personal attack...

hmmm!

Trans womenarewomen
In what way exactly? What characteristic is it that transwomen have in common with "other" women but which distinguishes them from men?

But Robin...

If you get rid of all sex segregation, leaving aside the issue of all the harm this is likely to cause to the 51% of the population that is considerably more likely to be harmed by the other 49% than vice versa..

...then you can't actually admit TW to female spaces. Whether you believe that TWAW becomes irrelevant. You've just destroyed the concept of single sex spaces in the first place. They no longer exist, so no one gets to use them.

Seems to me that that wouldn't be terribly popular with women OR TW.

I think you're a transphobe for the same reason that I think people in the 60s were racist when they expressed concerns that the end of segregation would lead to a rise in sexual offences against women.

Whereas I think it is racist to suggest that there is any comparison between racial differences (superficial, cosmetic, social construct) and sex differences (completely different physical organs).

To be fair, we haven't had a good old fashioned TWAWer here for a while.

Makes me all nostalgic.

I mean, I can see why for some people the 2014 model of the Sigma Gender Barrier caused problems. Some might even say that it was outdated, and depreciating as soon as it came out of the box. But you have to admit that in time trials, it certainly gave the old Bunbury 320 a run for her money! And held up well in the Smoke Test, the Reverse Acute Angle test, and cornered well.

Has anyone ever seriously floated the idea for a Gender Barrier Swap Shop? I reckon these boards are the perfect place. I have three in purple, one that does have a bit of foxing to the gusset and several useful for parts only.

My point is that s/he's revealed what she really thinks - that's transgender people don't exist, because s/he doesn't believe in them

I'm glad s/he's said that. It's much better to be open about your prejudice. I imagine that most people on here secretly think the same and probably get a bit tired of having to pretend otherwise.

Fortunately, the floodgates have opened now and we can all stop pretending that it's to do with statistics and everything to do with prejudice against transgender people. See how much easier things become when we can talk about the actual problem?

[See what I mean, mods? This is what I was trying to get at.]

Who said that?!

@robinr66

I can never understand why the racist argument is brought into this.

Because of the parallel. Prejudice follows the same patterns. Always has. And it's useful to take someone's position on one controversial issue and extrapolate that to another that is much more black and white - tends to focus the mind when people realise that their arguments against transgender rights are exactly the same arguments that racists make against racial equality...

Sometimes segregation IS important, to right historic inequalities or protect the vulnerable for instance.

Interesting point. I'm struggling to think of a legit example where that could be justified as a long term policy position to maintain segregation though.

A parallel analogy would need to be when the segregation is of benefit to the more vulnerable class. Women are not the whites in a racial analogy. A parallel analogy would be closer to white people identifying as black in order to claim a scholarship only open to people of colour.

The point you're making here is about pretence though. You're talking about white people pretending to be black to get a benefit (although Chris Rock does an excellent routine on why this doesn't happen).

So are you saying that transgender women are pretending to be women?

Legit examples for long term policy of segregation:

• segregating by age to protect children and sometimes the elderly in many spheres of life (healthcare, education, sports....)
• segregating by ability to allow differently abled people space and facilities to deal with toileting.
• sports are segregated by age, ability, and often weight in order for people to compete safely and fairly.

Off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more.

RE. your point about pretence, the segregation is by sex, not gender so are you saying that transgender women are female?

transgender people don't exist, because s/he doesn't believe in them

Quick, everyone, clap if you believe!

My point is that s/he's revealed what she really thinks - that's transgender people don't exist, because s/he doesn't believe in them

That is the equivalent of saying atheists don’t believe the Pope exists.

transgender people don't exist, because s/he doesn't believe in them

Please point out the post where they say transpeople don't exist.

I mean, it's not really possible to explain why you think someone is prejudiced in a positive way that isn't personal. It's not an attack but its not a compliment either...

oh, robin. I'm sorry you're finding it so hard that you're not allowed to make negative personal comments. Is it very difficult? Can you really not have a discussion without doing so?