Starker: Not only women have a cervix

[WildRunner]

This has made me cross.

Labour conference: Not right to say only women have a cervix, says Starmer www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58698406

I'm about to go for my smear test. Any man who feels like a woman is welcome to have a speculum inserted into his non-existent cervix - as long as it isn't at the expense of appointments for biological women.

@ozzyteabiscuit why are women reduced to our body parts!? Am I a cadaver??

Worth noting that the evidence of violence by trans women in women's spaces is far less than the evidence of violence against trans women in men's spaces.

What is your source for this evidence?

@CiaoForNiao

ozzyteabiscuit

I'm not remotely alienated by the term 'individuals with a cervix' because I am an individual with a cervix. It's inclusive.

How do you know you're an individual with a cervix? I assume at some point in your life you were taught that you were female and that females have a cervix.
How will future generations of females know if the words female and male no longer have meaning?

I also assume you either have English as a first language and/or an education at a level that means you understand what "individual with a cervix means". What about the ESOL students I used to teach? They knew they were women. They knew who men were (for cultural reasons they weren't allowed in the classes.) I can't imagine how long it would have taken to teach them this new complex language. Rather than "women have to go to the drs for smear tests/mammograms".

Maybe look outside your own privileged bubble.

I'm not advocating we get rid of the terms man and woman. I am a woman and happy to be called a woman.

Just because I believe trans women are women and trans men are men doesn't mean I disagree with science. I have a masters in science, facts are facts.

Nobody can deny they have certain organs, I just don't believe having those organs dictates whether you are male or female.

If an individual has major surgery for health reasons and has uterus, ovaries, cervix removed, are they a woman?

If an individual has XY chromosome but still has all the female reproductive organs (swyer syndrome) are they a woman?

Gender is a social construct that should be decided by the individual.

I would also like to see that evidence, I thought the stats showed that trans women offended at the same rate as other biological males?

If organs and chromosomes don't dictate whether you are male or female, what does?

I'm not sure why they can't say 'Women and other people with a cervix. 'Women and other people who menstruate'. 'Expectant mothers and other pregnant people'. It's inconclusive and much clearer than the cervix-havers and menstruators language.

if an individual has major surgery for health reasons and has uterus, ovaries, cervix removed, are they a woman?

Fuck off with this tired old trope. It has been posted so many times.

We all know it's more important that our language satisfies the tiny proportion of male-bodied trans women than it does the 51% of female-bodied women. Never mind what that means for female health.

I had a really interesting conversation with my husband earlier, about The Lancet reducing women to "bodies with vaginas". He pointed out we have a female cat with no uterus or cervix, and a male cat with no testicles. Yet we still dignify them with the term "male" or "female". But me? I'm a body with a hole. Because that makes men who feel like women feel better.

The only way to know if you have a cervix. Is by:

1. knowing that females( generally called women girls by the vast majority of the population) have them

And.

1. Understanding the word cervix and who has one in the first place. It's not like a penis. You can't see it. Very few ever feel it. If you read your smear letters carefully and listen etc then you would. If you could understand it. If you could read it. If you didn't glance and think oh smear right.

1. And if you didn't confuse with cervical when it's spine. And that includes men. I mean penis people. Who might mistake it for back.

And when anyone who knows all that reads people with a cervix.

In their head they think oh they mean women.

How many don't? In all honesty? How many people do not connect menstruator, person with a vagina, to woman(girl, female) in their head when reading those terms.

So all it does is:

Work on the idea that people know if they have a cervix because they know they're a woman/ girl.
If they know what a cervix is at all.
Put a step in for internal translation of the meaning.

So the whole thing only works because everyone knows if they are male female. And from that the different things are assumed to be there. With women often not known assumed.
And the vast majority of the general public. Use woman girl for sex. Including strangely the orgs and individuals who are very very much in favour of using menstruator etc. But only sometimes. At other times they happily use women girls to mean female. And are apparently oblivious to their inconsistent and hypocritical approach.

So no. People with a cervix is terrible for loads of reasons.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

Why can it not be “women and trans men”? That would be inclusive enough. Though it would require the Labour Party to know what a woman is.

I’ve wondered that - do trans people object to that?

If an individual has major surgery for health reasons and has uterus, ovaries, cervix removed, are they a woman?

Well nobody would be removing those organs from a man would they?

So yes, women with health complications relating to their reproductive organs are still women. They have to be women to have those complications in the first place. Surgery doesn't change that.

You say 'transwomen are women and transmen are men ' but also 'facts are facts.'

How is it biologically possible for a human being to change sex ?
It's not.

If it was

Women and people with a cervix.
Women and trans men.
Women for main message and then. A prominent note saying. If you are trans and female you still need XXX. Go here for more info.

I'm not advocating we get rid of the terms man and woman. I am a woman and happy to be called a woman.
Ok. But when articles and health related campaigns refer to "individuals with a cervix" rather than women, how do my former ESOL students know that means them?
And actually my friends DS with ASD would tell you he has a cervix, because he knows it means neck and he has a neck.

If an individual has major surgery for health reasons and has uterus, ovaries, cervix removed, are they a woman?
Of course they are. Has anyone actually ever said otherwise? Surely it's the TRAs referring to women as "cervix havers" and "menstruators" who are removing such women from their sex class? My mum is still a woman despite having a hysterectomy 20 years ago. My best friend is still a woman despite having absolutely everything removed.

If an individual has XY chromosome but still has all the female reproductive organs (swyer syndrome) are they a woman? I'm afraid I don't know enough about this to answer. But I do know that people with DSDs (which I assume swyer syndrome is) have repeatedly asked not to be used as a "gotcha" by the trans rights lobbyists.

If an individual has major surgery for health reasons and has uterus, ovaries, cervix removed, are they a woman?

I had a difficult birth with my second child. The traumatic injuries I received by the misused Kielland's forceps tore my cervix, amongst other things. After I crashed from undiagnosed blood loss, they opened me up and discovered the damage. I had an emergency hysterectomy, losing uterus, one ovary, and my cervix. My husband was told to visit me on ITU, to say his goodbyes, incase I didn't survive.

And yet you see fit, ozzyteabiscuit, to come here and tell me I might not be a woman? Despite your ridiculous posturing, and claims of inclusivity, you are nothing but a small minded, offensive, bigot.

Definitely not voting for Labour. They can keep to their superwoke fanclub, their views repulse me.

Nobody can deny they have certain organs, I just don't believe having those organs dictates whether you are male or female.

This is just ridiculous.

@Helleofabore

if an individual has major surgery for health reasons and has uterus, ovaries, cervix removed, are they a woman?

Fuck off with this tired old trope. It has been posted so many times.

Agree, this is the only response to this disgusting rubbish.

It depends if you think that Women means adult human female or you take the view that Women means a gender you choose to accept.

Only biological human females have cervixes. ( Obviously this doesn't mean all biological females have cervixes)

The vast majority of the population calls adult human females women. It isn't inclusive to reduce 50% of the population to body parts.

What are we going to call human females? They need some identification beyond body parts? XX maybe?

Trans men pose no threat to men in their spaces and so generally use male bathrooms etc without any issue.
Thee have been conflicts with some male only gay events however.

@ozzyteabiscuit

A trans man is a male who was born female so may have a vagina and a cervix and therefore still need a cervical exam.

Male and Female are mutually exclusive catogories. There is no such thing as a male who was born female.

Alekto I'm so sorry for your experience. For anyone to even suggest that the losing of your female reproductive organs might mean you are no longer a women is seriously insulting.

So sorry Alekto

This garbage attracts some ghastly people.

And yet you see fit, @ozzyteabiscuit,
Despite your ridiculous posturing, and claims of inclusivity, you are nothing but a small minded, offensive, bigot.

She's right. That's exactly what you are.

Sex is one of first things that an archaeologist decides about a skeleton, there isn't a need for a single organ to be present do that.
There usually isn't the need to use dna analysis either post puberty.

And forensic pathologists