Starker: Not only women have a cervix

[WildRunner]

This has made me cross.

Labour conference: Not right to say only women have a cervix, says Starmer www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58698406

I'm about to go for my smear test. Any man who feels like a woman is welcome to have a speculum inserted into his non-existent cervix - as long as it isn't at the expense of appointments for biological women.

Thank you for your wisdom and reassurance ozzyteabiscuit. Now I have been informed that inclusivity doesn’t affect me at all I will stop speaking and stop thinking and just recite all the appropriate mantras as and when required in order to make a huge difference to the lives of transgender individuals. I now know that my opinions are not important, I am not important, women are not important, children are not important. Thanks to you I finally understand that the only important thing is the lives of trans individuals. Nothing else and no one else matters. Everyone and everything should be sacrificed to make a difference to the lives of trans individuals. Have I understood you correctly?

@ozzyteabiscuit

A trans man is a male who was born female so may have a vagina and a cervix and therefore still need a cervical exam.

Please tell me on what planet you've witnessed this miracle occur?

I bit my tongue at the scientifically inaccurate turn of phrase above: A trans man is a male who was born female^ because no.

A trans man is a female who was born female but is one who wishes to identify as a man. There's no "male" in the equation.

"Sex and gender are not the same thing"

@ozzyteabiscuit Why do you feel the need to state this? Feminists are very well aware of what gender is and its use to dominate women and girls.

Your comments are the ones that are mixing up gender and sex. Other posters seem pretty darn clear about the distinction.

A transman is a "body with a vagina" like all the rest of us females.

@ozzyteabiscuit that's the problem it does effect women.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

Why can it not be “women and trans men”? That would be inclusive enough. Though it would require the Labour Party to know what a woman is.

Exactly this. Women and trans men. I refuse to agree to the word woman being erased in order to be inclusive to 0.1% of the population. Sorry but no.

@ozzyteabiscuit - good news! Trans by Helen Joyce is on offer on Kindle for 99p today. If you're interested in finding out why this kind of language makes women uneasy, have a read. Excellent book, bargain price, one day only!

Do many transgender men actually mind about this?
I would have thought that if one is identifying as a different gender than one was born as, then there are going to be these little anomalies. I mean they’re not going to forget they were born with female genitalia are they. So can’t imagine they’d feel that horrified that when talking about cervixes and smear tests that the term ‘women’ is used?
It just feels like an issue has been created out of nothing.
Happy to be corrected but I’m not hearing the voice of transmen on this so far.

Dear TRAs,
Can we please have just one word to describe these human people with cervices? You clearly don't want that word to be "woman", so how about "female"? If that doesn't suit you either, then fine, you guys pick the word. Because there are quite a few different situations when we need to refer specifically to just the people with the cervices. And, now I come to think of it, there are hardly any circumstances I can think of when we need to refer specifically to "people who feel like a person with a cervix irrespective of whether they actually have a cervix" which seems to be the new definition of woman. So how about we let you keep the word "woman" on the condition that you give us a new word for the people who have a cervix. Once you've chosen it, we can stick that new word on our public toilet doors. And we can use it to label our sports teams. And write it on leaflets for medical care. And use it for all the other times when we want to refer only to the people who actually have a cervix.
Many thanks,
The Cervix-People

And yes!
‘Women and transmen’ is much better! and actually shorter

It's always people who menstruate or people with a uterus that have to be accepting. Never people with a prostate, I wonder why!?! 🤔🙄

I'd quite like to be a cer-vixen. Pretty damn cool.

In fact I'd even donate that word to the trans community because it's frankly more rock and roll than 'woman'.

"an individual with xx chromosomes"... If only there were some sort of snappier 5 letter word for that.... Woman.

A trans man can identify as whatever he wants to. Doesn't change his chromosomes though. Still a biological woman requiring the same care as every other woman. 🤦🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

@NautaOcts

Do many transgender men actually mind about this? I would have thought that if one is identifying as a different gender than one was born as, then there are going to be these little anomalies. I mean they’re not going to forget they were born with female genitalia are they. So can’t imagine they’d feel that horrified that when talking about cervixes and smear tests that the term ‘women’ is used? It just feels like an issue has been created out of nothing. Happy to be corrected but I’m not hearing the voice of transmen on this so far.

I don’t think trans men do care. Most will want to live their lives quietly. It’s trans women that are the most vocal and seem to believe they can tell women how to tell and think. So yet again men telling women how to behave.

It’s beyond ridiculous and there is so much more we need to be worrying about. The boat has tipped v much the other way against women- without our goddam cervix and womb there would be no goddam procreation -

A male who was born female? This is what we are teaching our doctors these days...?

Are we to do away with the offensive words man woman, male and female and just refer to each other as cervix’s and scrotums?

@NautaOcts

Do many transgender men actually mind about this? I would have thought that if one is identifying as a different gender than one was born as, then there are going to be these little anomalies. I mean they’re not going to forget they were born with female genitalia are they. So can’t imagine they’d feel that horrified that when talking about cervixes and smear tests that the term ‘women’ is used? It just feels like an issue has been created out of nothing. Happy to be corrected but I’m not hearing the voice of transmen on this so far.

There was an article on the BBC recently about a transman not being invited for routine cervical screening because their medical records listed them as a man. And it just made me want to scream about the dangers of rewriting biological reality.

www.bbc.com/news/health-56942480

I'm sure all the female children in Afghanistan need to do to access an education is to identify as a boy. Because clearly they are choosing their own oppression. Women (that'll be the individuals without a Y chromosome) are always oppressed because of their biology and sadly we can't identify out of it. Biology is real, gender is a tool of the patriarchy to keep women in their place.

Sex and gender are not the same thing.

We know. We know that trans men are, in fact, women with 'gender identities'.

Trans man is an individual with XX chromosomes who identifies as male.

'Identifies as' is not the same as 'Is'.

Women who choose not to use the noun for mammals of their species and sex are still women, and unless they have had it surgically excised, will need to attend for cancer screening tests appropriate to their sex. Not their 'gender identity'.

The rest of us are not willing to be dehumanised for their sake.

I like to think we've come to a point where women can be seen as fully formed humans, not just a selection of body parts and functions, but I guess when you're immersed in a misogynistic mindset its easy to see that kind of language as harmless.

Split arse
Cunt
Bleeder
Piece of ass
Breeder
Birthing body
Vulva person
Cervix haver
Menstruator

Spot the difference

Ozzyteabiscuit “Sex and gender are not the same thing.”

Yes. YES. You’re right.
Female and woman refer to sex.

Someone can choose to identify as a different gender, if they wish to, (though personally i think its a massive retrograde step) but they can’t change their biological sex.

“The rest of us are not willing to be dehumanised for their sake.”

0.1% of the population and even less for trans men.

What kier confirmed is that.

The word woman means gender 100%.
It's right to refer to the billions of women and girls by referencing their vaginas, cervixes, call them menstruators etc.

Any reference to women by default includes any male who IDs as a woman.

Any laws, commentary, international orgs, etc etc. When they reference women he will take it to mean both males and females.

I look forward to seeing him talking about VAWG or the plight of women in Afghanistan etc. By using the terms people with vaginas. Or similar.

As a lawyer I'm sure consistency and accuracy are important to him.

Let's wait and see eh...

Women only spaces is a different argument, just because I agree with inclusive language doesn't mean I think transgender men should be allowed in traditionally women only spaces. This should be looked at in a case by case basis for the safety of women and trans women.

Worth noting that the evidence of violence by trans women in women's spaces is far less than the evidence of violence against trans women in men's spaces.

Why does trans inclusive language make you you feel dehumanised? This is not solved by using the phrase 'women and trans men' it's just another way of suggesting trans men are women which they aren't.

The main point is to clarify OPs initial fear which was that trans women are taking up cervical exam appointments away from women which they aren't.

You can disagree that trans men aren't men and trans women aren't women but I don't agree and won't agree. I sincerely hope that none of your family of friends reveal to you they are trans as it is this kind of response which is why suicide in the trans community is so high.