Can someone please explain this to me?

[Becca19962014]

Please don't flame me. I'm in a really bad place, mentally and physically, a huge amount to deal with and zero medical support.

I was directed to email someone at the council for urgent help which I did, and it went though (sometimes they don't). I began my email with "Dear Ms" as it was a woman and always address emails as such, like letters, and on the council website it says she's Ms firstname second name.

Anyway, I've had a long email back about discrimination, how i need to educate myself about pronouns online and how to address people properly in writing. They drew my attention to their signature which says gender pronoun her/she and directed me to council policy about gender discrimination.

Zero advice on my urgent situation

I dont understand. Do I now just put "hi" in any professional emails so I don't get in trouble? Why aren't they answering my urgent question?? Was I rude? How am I supposed to know how to address people properly and why am I being accused of discrimination?!

Have you got a thread for advice on the eviction? There’s loads of knowledgeable people here xxx

You addressed her as Ms lastname, the same as on the council website.

I have zero clue where or why you would need to insert this persons pronouns into your email

Did they expect dear ms lastname (she/her)? Because if so that is absurd and she shouldn't be putting her personal bloody pronoun choice over the needs of a person looking for help.

I would complain.

No autocorrect, just looked.

Shelter website won't load at all; their helpline number isn't connecting, just an answerphone saying go online and disconnecting as they're busy. No option to queue.

CAB are closed here so i tried the national number and was directed to the council website.

That is bizarre. I wonder if they possibly misread your email as "Mr"? Or is it possible that you referred to another person in your email who they think should have been referred to differently (e.g. "I already spoke to the lady in reception but she said to contact you")?

But in any case, exactly what they are kicking off about is not really relevant IMO. Someone in that sort of customer-facing role, providing support to people in potentially desperate situations - and especially someone who takes it upon themselves to lecture other people about discrimination - should understand that their customers come in all types, including those with English as a second language, with learning disabilities or mental health conditions (or just huge amounts of stress/distress which prevent them from focusing on the minutiae of other people's pronouns), people who are blind or partially-sighted, people with different religions and beliefs who might not (and are not required to) agree with the concept of "gender identity", etc etc. So they need to show respect and understanding for all their customers, including understanding that there are many perfectly valid and non-discriminatory reasons why someone might not pick up on how they want to be addressed.

Moreover they should be aware that their first duty is to their customers (remember the old saying that "the customer is always right"!), and it is not their place to harangue or "educate" you for what they see as getting something wrong (as long as we're not talking about actual abuse of course, which is clearly not the case here and I don't see that you've done anything wrong at all)!

I would agree about trying to get hold of their manager or someone else who can help you - and once you get your immediate problem sorted out, please do give this person's manager/the organisation feedback on this and show them the letter. This person is clearly not suited to the role they're in!

@Suitcaseseverywhere

Have you got a thread for advice on the eviction? There’s loads of knowledgeable people here xxx

No. Last couple of times I've asked for advice I've ended up reported for being a troll/begging. I'm very rural and people don't seem to understand what that means on here, also my device is very old, due to cease working any day and most websites won't work and no access to printer or photocopier.

My last thread, about an amazon email address for customer services resulted in loads of complaints to MN for trolling and begging. Literally asked for an email address as can't run their app, explained above and lots of complaints and PMs.

I'd understand if I had made a mistake, like I said websites aren't always uptodate and would have apologised had they just mentioned it to let me know.

Even if you had made a mistake though, she still shouldn't have reacted like that and completely ignored the rest of your email regarding your situation. She's wasted time that you can't afford to waste and failed to do her job properly.

@yourhairiswinterfire that's true.

If you are in England, OP, this might be of use?

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-privately/ending-your-tenancy/get-help-if-youre-being-evicted-england/

I'm sorry about the council employee, a completely unnecessary and unprofessional response. Once you're sorted, I think a complaint would be in order.

'You can only be evicted if your landlord has followed the proper steps. They must:

give you a valid section 21 or section 8 notice
get a possession order from court if you haven't left by the date on the section 21 or section 8 notice
ask the court for a warrant of possession if you haven't left by the date on the possession order
get an eviction warrant from the court - this means bailiffs can make you leave your home'

-from the CAB link, above.

' I apologize if you have been offended by my form of address to you, which I based on the councils website information. Please let me know how you prefer to be addressed so that we can move on with the matter in hand. Many thanks.'

It depends on the person but some local councillors can really help when the Council is proving awkward to deal with..and many of them check their emails continuously. So they might still be picking up even when the council is closed. It's just a thought. I was homeless once so I really feel for you. Take care.

This is bonkers. Since when is it a council worker's role to educate anyone in email writing, even if you had done anything wrong which as far as I can work out you haven't. There isn't one way to write formal emails anyway, particular workplaces may have a style guide but they're not all the same.

Who has given you her email address as an emergency contact? Could you forward the non-response back to them and ask who the emergency contact on a Friday or over the weekend is? Or just anyone you can find in the same department. What use is an emergency contact that's only there Mon-Thurs office hours? That's also bonkers.

But you only use she/her when talking about her to someone else. How exactly does she think a stranger should address her?!

She’s batshit.

@ArabellaScott

'You can only be evicted if your landlord has followed the proper steps. They must:

give you a valid section 21 or section 8 notice
get a possession order from court if you haven't left by the date on the section 21 or section 8 notice
ask the court for a warrant of possession if you haven't left by the date on the possession order
get an eviction warrant from the court - this means bailiffs can make you leave your home'

-from the CAB link, above.

They've done none of that. But I've no way to stop them as so ill.

There's a reason why they say they can do it without but can't face putting that on here.

Thanks for the information though!

My council is very much recognised as being bonkers!

This is all partly down to me being so upset I should have just replied instead of getting upset about it.

I would also complain, her job doesn't involve being prissy about her own opinion of herself.

I would go apeshit in your shoes OP-send the email to the very top and ask them if this is the way the council has trained its employees to deal with members of the public in crisis.

Also forward it on to your MP-they should be made aware of the lack of service that you are getting from your council.

Huh?

Their pronouns are she/ her so what on earth is the problem with ms?

Titles haven't been on emails for years! Decades.

Ms has nothing to do with pronouns and is a standard title for women.

This is bizarre.

And yes they are bonkers.

Just double checked ' on the council website it says she's Ms firstname second name.'.

This person is either-

Bonkers
Enjoys starting arguments
Or
Wants to avoid the work by raising this instead

On balance I go for option 3.

Can you get to a CAB? not sure if you have to book.
Does it say who their manager is? You could reply and cc the manager.
Something totally bland like. I apologise for using the incorrect way to address you.
Please can you respond about the urgent eviction situation I contacted you about.

I mean that's a bold move. But I think they're trying to get rid of caseload using this response.

Can you access crisis.org.uk on your device? They have local contacts around the country with phone numbers listed. Maybe they can help you tomorrow.

Maybe this person has recently added their pronouns,was waiting to take offence - and so, misread your “Ms” as “Mr”?

I would complain. Our council allows you to make the initial complaint verbally ie you phone the general number, say you want to make a complaint, and then they put you through to the right department.

This person has acted very unprofessionally. Even if you had put a typo, they should have dealt with your problem. The fact they didn’t and you’re in such a difficult situation is disgraceful. Please don’t be afraid to complain and push this.

I hope you get your housing sorted. I know how stressful it is.

You need to complain. That person should not be in a job where they are dealing with people in actual crisis when they are so self-obsessed as to wank on about their fucking pronouns when you haven’t even misgendered them (and it would have been an inappropriate and aggressive response even if you had).

This is so odd, if their pronouns are she/her why would using Ms be offensive? In any case, that response was completely inappropriate and unprofessional. She is basically not doing her job. Definitely complain, and definitely don't apologise - you haven't done anything wrong. Hope you get things sorted out.

This has also made me think of the Mridul Wadhwa thing where rape victims have to learn not to be transphobic before they can get help. So now if you don't pass the pronouns test we can't help you with being homeless.

Long shot OP but do you have any home insurance with legal cover? They have 24/7 helplines and will give some really good advice even if you don't have a case they would cover.

If this is a private landlord there's various rules around eviction/bailiffs but you need advice and time is short. Shelter do have an emergency number, I would try that again and citizens advice plus try someone else at the council - they must have some emergency provision.