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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

ACLU rewrites Ruth Bader Ginsberg to remove the word “woman”

139 replies

foxgoosefinch · 23/09/2021 00:01

Unbelievable:
twitter.com/aclu/status/1439259891064004610?s=21

OP posts:
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MoltenLasagne · 24/09/2021 18:17

I'm not sure is this was always the case or not, but there is now a fairly large group of urban people with university educations who don't really seem to be higher order thinkers.

I think social media has made it really easy to be intellectually lazy. How many times do you see people commenting on here or Facebook about a linked article who clearly haven't bothered to read it?

Plus I find media is constantly written now to tell us how to feel about something, rather than just giving the facts, or at least giving opinions at the end. I'm sure I wasn't always the case - so much news seems to be columnist style now.

Jaysmith71 · 24/09/2021 18:21

MoltenLasagne

There is the "2008 Thesis" that smart phones and social media have transformed adolescence?

MoltenLasagne · 24/09/2021 20:13

@Jaysmith71

MoltenLasagne

There is the "2008 Thesis" that smart phones and social media have transformed adolescence?

That sounds interesting- do you have a link? My inept googling skills aren't bringing anything up.
NancyDrawed · 25/09/2021 07:14

Late to the party, but saw this on a twitter thread:

La Plunking Otter
@PlunkingOtter
·
14h
Hey
@ACLU
, did I get this right?

ACLU rewrites Ruth Bader Ginsberg to remove the word “woman”
Aroundtheworldin80moves · 25/09/2021 07:30

One small step for [person], one giant leap for [personkind]

Its funny how replacing Men or Man doesn't really change the meaning...

Jaysmith71 · 25/09/2021 07:34

Cannot provide a synoptic link, but loads of data worldwide looks like this:

www.statista.com/statistics/297625/uk-teenage-pregnancies/

NecessaryScene · 25/09/2021 07:53

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

One small step for [person], one giant leap for [personkind]

Its funny how replacing Men or Man doesn't really change the meaning...

Well, in that case, it was using "man" in its now secondary, older (and hence more poetic) meaning of "person". So changing it doesn't change the meaning, just makes it less poetic-via-archaic-language. The capitalisation specifically indicates that - see below.

The use of "man" for specifically male is newer - the Old English word "wer" fell out of use and people just started calling males "men".

Seems like evidence that even back then people found it easy to see that men were people, but women weren't quite. "Human" had to be invented later to fill in the lack of a specific word for "men including women", what with "men" being ambiguous. wif/wifmann stayed and eventually became "woman". The "man" in "woman" has that "person" meaning.

Only obvious place you see "wer" in modern english is "werewolf" - "man wolf".

And the insistence that "man" has the "specifically male" meaning - rather than just being ambiguous - person or male - is very recent. That's second half of the 20th century.

Referring to the capitalised Man:

One interesting convention that was thought up in the early 1900s to deal with this issue of “man” coming to mean both male and female and also sometimes meaning males exclusively is, in literature, to do the following: when referring to humans, “man” should be capitalized as in “Man”; when referring to “man” as in “male”, it is to be left lower case. This convention was used in such literary works as “The Lord of the Rings” and was a key point in the prophecy concerning the Witch-king of Angmar: “no man can kill me”, meaning that according to the prophecy a woman, Eowyn, could because “man” in the prophecy was not capitalized.

NecessaryScene · 25/09/2021 07:59

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

One small step for [person], one giant leap for [personkind]

Its funny how replacing Men or Man doesn't really change the meaning...

And another thought - I think people possibly don't realise that Armstrong's use of Man and Mankind was perfectly conventional and most people wouldn't have batted an eyelid at it in 1969.

Certainly there would have been a number of feminists hopping up and down about archaic language, but the mass of the public would have been fine with it, and not regarded it as archaic.

Eventually the language shift the feminists wanted happened, and people stopped using "Man" to mean human, reserving it for males, so abandoning its original meaning.

This is a bit like the Lancet situation, but they've got ahead of the curve. If they'd said "women", the public would never have noticed. But they've said "bodies with vaginas" to pacify some activists.

Maybe in 50 years time this use of "bodies with vaginas" will be totally normal, and "woman" will seem archaic...

lionheart · 28/09/2021 12:53

'“Having spent time with Justice Ginsburg, I would like to believe that if she were alive today, she would encourage us to evolve our language to encompass a broader vision of gender, identity and sexuality,” Romero stated.'

EdgeOfACoin · 28/09/2021 12:53

“My colleagues do a fantastic job of trying to understand a reality that people who seek abortions are not only women,” he said. “That reality exists.”

I wish he could tell us what a 'woman' is.

TheWeeDonkey · 28/09/2021 13:01

Language needs to be rethought?????

TheWeeDonkey · 28/09/2021 13:03

I really do think in the rush to medicalise people who identify as trans, there really does need to be more therapeutic support too. It seems to me the most successful well balanced trans people are the ones who recognise their sex and understand that it is still important on a health basis is nothing else.

merrymouse · 28/09/2021 13:11

“My colleagues do a fantastic job of trying to understand a reality that people who seek abortions are not only women,” he said. “That reality exists.”

No the reality is that everyone seeking an abortion is a woman (sex), but some identify as men (gender).

That is why it is a women’s (sex) rights issue. Gender identity is as irrelevant to need for an abortion as nationality.

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