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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

ACLU rewrites Ruth Bader Ginsberg to remove the word “woman”

139 replies

foxgoosefinch · 23/09/2021 00:01

Unbelievable:
twitter.com/aclu/status/1439259891064004610?s=21

OP posts:
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Ringsender2 · 23/09/2021 23:58

@Clymene

I hope RGB haunts Strangio
Grin
ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 24/09/2021 00:13

Some of these "corrected" quotes and lyrics are hilarious. I'd like to contribute "I may not be a [person of high social standing or refinement], but I'm all [person]".

MrsTerryPratchett · 24/09/2021 00:29

I can't bring myself to change Whatta Man by Salt n Peppa. But I suppose that fits because men are still allowed to be men.

RinkyStinky1 · 24/09/2021 02:10

"I am [person], hear me roar" Helen Reddy - 'I Am [Person]

"[Person], I can hardly express.." John Lennon - [Person].

FFS.

LobsterNapkin · 24/09/2021 03:02

@AngeloMysterioso

Found it. Posted on 31st March this year-

Last 100 @ACLU tweets by topic

Immigration/Muslim ban: 8
Police reform/racial justice: 9
Voting rights: 7
Economic inequality: 3
Prison: 1
Surveillance: 2
Abortion: 3
DC Statehood: 2
ACLU fundraising: 1
Trans issues: 63

Free speech: 1
Due process: 0

twitter.com/mtracey/status/1377286476187242499?s=21

Significant margin is rather an understatement. More like a fucking landslide.

It's shocking and sad to think what this organisation used to stand for, and do.

People now have come to associate freedom of speech, freedom of belief, and due process, with right wing causes and groups. Now, I am not partisan enough to think that the right wing only has bad ideas, that's never been true.

But the fact that partisan progressives hear about things like freedom of information and think "right wing" is shocking.

Yesterday I was reading about a group that was protesting that the local library had a book they didn't like. One of the comments directed to those who defended it on access to information grounds was "well then, why don't they just put Mein Kampf on the shelves?!!!" Which is, of course, already on the shelf, and has been for decades.

OnlyTheLangOfTheTitberg · 24/09/2021 06:32

@AngeloMysterioso

Found it. Posted on 31st March this year-

Last 100 @ACLU tweets by topic

Immigration/Muslim ban: 8
Police reform/racial justice: 9
Voting rights: 7
Economic inequality: 3
Prison: 1
Surveillance: 2
Abortion: 3
DC Statehood: 2
ACLU fundraising: 1
Trans issues: 63

Free speech: 1
Due process: 0

twitter.com/mtracey/status/1377286476187242499?s=21

Significant margin is rather an understatement. More like a fucking landslide.

Most oppressed tho. [/s]
AngeloMysterioso · 24/09/2021 11:56

I’ve been raging thinking about this a lot today, and was wondering if they’d dare to sanitise the words of say, Martin Luther King, in the same way as they have here.

Then I found the answer to that exact question- no. No they would not.

They posted this quote from his I Have A Dream speech, “men” and all, in August this year.

What is it about Martin Luther King that makes his words more sacrosanct, I wonder?

twitter.com/aclu/status/1431593641823383554?s=21

ACLU rewrites Ruth Bader Ginsberg to remove the word “woman”
AngeloMysterioso · 24/09/2021 11:59

Not a [them], [themselves] or [people] in sight…

ACLU rewrites Ruth Bader Ginsberg to remove the word “woman”
ACLU rewrites Ruth Bader Ginsberg to remove the word “woman”
ACLU rewrites Ruth Bader Ginsberg to remove the word “woman”
PermanentTemporary · 24/09/2021 14:01

@foxgoosefinch I'm on a lone tip at the moment referring to men who transition as trans men, and women who transition as trans women. So Chase Strangio is a trans woman, I'm a woman, we are the sex class for whom abortion rights are essential.

I'm not seriously expecting one perimenopausal British woman to swing anything in the way of language change. But it's a statement. We should be long past the era of trans people hiding who they are, going 'stealth' and all that. It means I can accurately and neutrally state that Christine Burns is a trans man. Stephen Whittle is one of the most influential trans women in the world. Owen Jones is a man. Naomi Hersl was a trans man who was tragically murdered. Michael Dillon was one of the first known British trans women. I am a woman.

No cis, no denial of sex, equality and acceptance for all trans people, open discussion of rights.

Jaysmith71 · 24/09/2021 14:06

[Persons] who want [Persons]
Who like [Persons] to be [Persons]
Who do [Persons] like they're [Persons]
Who do [Persons] like they're [Persons]
Always should be someone you really love...

PrincessNutella · 24/09/2021 14:13

This is definitely a great example of the Overton Window. My husband didn't know what the Overton Window was so I was googling it on Wikipedia and it had this quote from Noam Chomsky:

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum—even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.[12]"
MrsTerryPratchett · 24/09/2021 14:48

@AngeloMysterioso that is very enlightening.

foxgoosefinch · 24/09/2021 14:58

One of my favourite current usernames on MN is @mrsovertonswindow

OP posts:
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 24/09/2021 15:02

I await the re-writing of the US constitution. Future scholars will be baffled as to why there was any controversy over its amendments. There will be no understanding about why Amendments 15 or 19 were necessary.

TheElementsSong · 24/09/2021 15:06

I await the re-writing of the US constitution.

Doesn't it only refer to MEN, and therefore will be safe from the square brackets of inclusivity?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/09/2021 16:36

foxgoosefinch

Grin Grin

Orderhhh · 24/09/2021 16:44

Don’t see what all the fuss is about. It’s just political correctness doing what political correctness does. It’s merely the changing of language to remove or modify any language that anyone else personally finds offensive or exclusionary. Left wing politics 101 at least since the Blair era.

I was long sneered at by feminists and called a ‘Daily Mail reader’ and ‘right wing’.

Well my morally superior guardian readers, congratulations. You now have the world you wanted. Your side of the debate have won and my side have lost. I have accepted this now, I suggest you all do the same.

Political correctness as a point of principle has won, language will be modified to remove terms that people find offensive and/or exclusionary. It’s an on-going never ending process as it’s based on a principle with no end point. There is now a duty not to offend and if your language does offend you change your language, you don’t tell people not to be offended. The left wished for this and now they have it. They must have known when arguing for this that it wouldn’t just be language that offended them that would be changed but all language that offended would be phased out.

CiaoForNiao · 24/09/2021 16:56

It's precisely because I'm a woman that I've had to have abortions. My rapist didn't. The outcome of his abuse didn't affect him.

Ffs. This shit makes me so fucking angry.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/09/2021 17:16

I'm not seriously expecting one perimenopausal British woman to swing anything in the way of language change. But it's a statement. We should be long past the era of trans people hiding who they are, going 'stealth' and all that. It means I can accurately and neutrally state that Christine Burns is a trans man. Stephen Whittle is one of the most influential trans women in the world. Owen Jones is a man. Naomi Hersl was a trans man who was tragically murdered. Michael Dillon was one of the first known British trans women. I am a woman.

Agree with this.

LobsterNapkin · 24/09/2021 17:18

@Orderhhh

Don’t see what all the fuss is about. It’s just political correctness doing what political correctness does. It’s merely the changing of language to remove or modify any language that anyone else personally finds offensive or exclusionary. Left wing politics 101 at least since the Blair era.

I was long sneered at by feminists and called a ‘Daily Mail reader’ and ‘right wing’.

Well my morally superior guardian readers, congratulations. You now have the world you wanted. Your side of the debate have won and my side have lost. I have accepted this now, I suggest you all do the same.

Political correctness as a point of principle has won, language will be modified to remove terms that people find offensive and/or exclusionary. It’s an on-going never ending process as it’s based on a principle with no end point. There is now a duty not to offend and if your language does offend you change your language, you don’t tell people not to be offended. The left wished for this and now they have it. They must have known when arguing for this that it wouldn’t just be language that offended them that would be changed but all language that offended would be phased out.

I think many people honestly didn't.

Something I've come to realize over the years is that many people, especially younger ones, are very bad at seeing what kinds of logical conclusions an idea is likely to come to over time once it's released into the wild, so to speak. They assume people's underlying sense of what is right and good will remain the same.

Personally I think this is why in many cultures elders function as the leaders rather than younger people.

And many people just don't have much subtlety in the way they think about and use language. They take things at face value.

I'm not sure is this was always the case or not, but there is now a fairly large group of urban people with university educations who don't really seem to be higher order thinkers. Most see themselves as progressives, but it is essentially a conservative position for them, based on a kind of received wisdom and the values they grew up with rather than anything else. They don't have a sophisticated understanding of analysis, politics, language, science, etc. Though they think they do.

TheTeaFairy · 24/09/2021 17:26

'Something I've come to realize over the years is that many people, especially younger ones, are very bad at seeing what kinds of logical conclusions an idea is likely to come to over time once it's released into the wild, so to speak.'

Sadly agree with this 100%. 🙁
(Apologies if bold failed.)

foxgoosefinch · 24/09/2021 17:55

I'm not sure is this was always the case or not, but there is now a fairly large group of urban people with university educations who don't really seem to be higher order thinkers. Most see themselves as progressives, but it is essentially a conservative position for them, based on a kind of received wisdom and the values they grew up with rather than anything else. They don't have a sophisticated understanding of analysis, politics, language, science, etc. Though they think they do.

I definitely agree with this. Though I think it might always have been the case, sadly…

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/09/2021 18:03

They posted this quote from his I Have A Dream speech, “men” and all, in August this year.

How very surprising Confused

Jaysmith71 · 24/09/2021 18:04

Something has happened to Youth. Flappers, Jivers, Teds, Mods & Rockers, Hippies, Punks, Goths, Ravers, .....and then?

Rebellion went out of fashion. You conform or you are cast out.

MoltenLasagne · 24/09/2021 18:13

@Jaysmith71

Something has happened to Youth. Flappers, Jivers, Teds, Mods & Rockers, Hippies, Punks, Goths, Ravers, .....and then?

Rebellion went out of fashion. You conform or you are cast out.

Ah you've missed Emos and Scene Kids which takes you up to about 2005... (memories of my cousin with massive hair with badly done stripes and fishnet gloves)

There must be something since then though?

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