Woman's hour now...!

[WarriorN]

Eerr what now?

They want our views! Go vipers go!!!!

Neither lived experience nor anecdotes about it should be beyond challenge. And nor should it be exempt from the overall modern take: In God we trust, everyone else should bring data.

Absolutely. Have a look at this evidence that shows the adoption of gender identity non-discrimination laws (self ID for use of bathrooms, changing rooms etc) in localities in Massachusetts were not associated with any increase in criminal incident reports. The study examined crime rates in Massachusetts before and after adoption of public accommodation laws that include gender identity protections.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13178-018-0335-z

@Bejazzled

This is a clip from the BBC Scotland interview this morning 😟 hope it works

Pro GRA reform expert says it doesn’t matter if there’s a spike in murders of women because of Self ID because these issues can be fixed if they happen.

clip

Omfg.

So women have no human rights?

Gotcha, Blokey.

We should never forget how gay man were treated in the 80s" Absolutely not Christine, I agree, but you could have said gay people, no?

Well Christine was being completely consistent there in her approach that only males matter.

Joanna Belcher (Helen's wife) appears in a video on Helen Belcher's website. The original website has disappeared but it's archived here:

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20191213063721/helenbelcher.uk/en/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20191213063721/helenbelcher.uk/en/

Scroll down to the second video on the page to hear Joanna talking about what happened in their marriage. She talks about 'walking on eggshells' and Helen having 'a short fuse'.

The page will probably take ages to load (it did for me), but comes up eventually.

@futureghost

We should never forget how gay man were treated in the 80s" Absolutely not Christine, I agree, but you could have said gay people, no?

Well Christine was being completely consistent there in her approach that only males matter.

Absolutely. Totally clear she is only interested in prioritising the rights of people born with a dick. Which is extra baffling as she's a woman.

I'm up to the 'puberty blockers age' debacle and loving Emma being firm with her but still aghast that in the fact of direct, uncompromising questioning Christine still refuses to answer a fucking question with an answer.

My god it's exhausting.

I'm so tired of the appeals to emotion. Policy and law is not made based on people you know who are nice!

Agree 100% ScreamingMeMe.

@Bejazzled

This is a clip from the BBC Scotland interview this morning 😟 hope it works

Pro GRA reform expert says it doesn’t matter if there’s a spike in murders of women because of Self ID because these issues can be fixed if they happen.

clip

Well Layla Moran said exactly the same thing in an interview on radio 4. When asked about self ID leading to women being assaulted she gave a laugh and said ' we have laws to deal with that' So her position was that we do not need to prevent sexual assault of women, we can just rely on our excellent legal system to prosecute attackers after the fact.

These people do not give a shit about women. We are just collateral damage to enable their self-identified kindness.

This is encouraging re Rosie from a Welsh Labour MP

twitter.com/gbnews/status/1439912523973763076?s=21

Thank you for the link - have listened to it all now and I agree, Emma really did carve into the issue, but Christine didn't answer any of it appropriately or fully.
Interesting "turn"...

not associated with any increase in criminal incident reports
Using Darren Merager as an example, when the girls' swimming team called the police, it wasn't filed as an incident. So what percentage of incidents are recorded and what percentage are dismissed because a man has a legal right to be in a single-sex space intended for women?

@futureghost

While absolutely in favour of single sex spaces, rights, protections and opportunities until such a time as female-bodied people have the same level of social, political and economic power as male, I am not convinced by the idea that men will adopt jobs or positions solely in order to seek out girls/women/children to abuse them. Sadly, I think it's more likely that these are crimes of opportunity and many more males (no, not all males) would abuse given the opportunity

So is your position that Jimmy Saville really was a philanthropist with an interest in healthcare? And it was just lucky that this also gave him access to patients?

I am sure that there are many men who take opportunities if they arise. But I don't really have any doubt that there are also men who deliberately organise their lives to provide those opportunties.

This. See also priests, teachers, care home workers and football coaches who moved from role to role to abuse children over decades. According to our safeguarding lead, the local churches have a rogues gallery of would be volunteers who do the rounds trying to get a foot in the door.

I think it’s naive to think many of these sophisticated and manipulative abusers started out with good intentions and found by complete coincidence that these abusive tendencies were triggered later on. I also question whether there is a narrative that the abuse of girls is somehow less shocking/serious.

Just listened to that - wow
'It doesn't matter if there is a slight spike in murders as it is not about that, this is a human rights issue.'

Wow. Women really are not human then. Because our right to life is not a human rights issue. Wow. Other rights of other people, those more human people, matter more than our right to life.

@Bejazzled

This is a clip from the BBC Scotland interview this morning 😟 hope it works

Pro GRA reform expert says it doesn’t matter if there’s a spike in murders of women because of Self ID because these issues can be fixed if they happen.

clip

This is terrifying. And the twitter users appear to have dug up some information on him admitting to being angry and difficult to live with, and that he likes dressing as a child. Nice.

I think it’s naive to think many of these sophisticated and manipulative abusers started out with good intentions and found by complete coincidence that these abusive tendencies were triggered later on.
Agreed, it's not just naive, it's gravely insulting to men who aren't predators too. You are either able to be "triggered" by working with children, or you aren't a paedophile.

@ChattyLion

I'm so tired of the appeals to emotion. Policy and law is not made based on people you know who are nice!

Agree 100% ScreamingMeMe.

tbh, there was a distinct lack of useful data in the recent hearings about the impact of removing the Universal Credit uplift.

I firmly believe that there has been no attempt to produce an impact assessment and this needs to be done.

The people who gave testimony were, in some (but not all cases) testifying as individuals rather than as representatives of a relevant organisation (some were however). None of them gave the range of data needed. None of them had good, verifiable answers to questions that were readily apparent.

There should be a process that allows people who are testifying about emergent issues to have access to technical analysts with whom they can discuss relevant quantitative and qualitative data. Then there can be some useful discussion and a good robust debate.

The current system serves no one well and it's an extravagance that the public policy making infrastructure should reject.

@teawamutu

Missed this but looking forward to the catch up.

Fucking FINALLY.

Absolutely this. Will have a listen later

I read somethign that made it really clear why the trans rights issue is not comparalble to previous civil rights issues

All previous civil rights movements were about rebalancing of rights between a priviledged group and a minority / oppressed group.

• Northern Ireland
• Anti-slavery
• Gay rights movement
• Suffragette movement

The trans rights movement is about removing rights from an oppressed group (women) and bestowing them on the oppressors (males). It is just not comparable to anything that has gone before.

The trans rights movement is about removing rights from an oppressed group (women) and bestowing them on the oppressors (males). It is just not comparable to anything that has gone before.

Also about reversing the roles of the oppressor and the oppressed (middle-aged white fathers can, with impunity, forcibly team themselves with the most oppressed of all historical times and have a new reason to insist that everyone else should be quiet and listen to them).

@Bejazzled

This is a clip from the BBC Scotland interview this morning 😟 hope it works

Pro GRA reform expert says it doesn’t matter if there’s a spike in murders of women because of Self ID because these issues can be fixed if they happen.

clip

Christ that is chilling.

'It doesn't matter (laughs) it doesn't matter if there is a slight spike in those statistics because this is about human rights'

Fucking hell. At least the quiet part was said out loud, again. The human rights of those women that are harmed or killed don't even factor into their thinking.

Just jumping on to say thanks for flagging this interview, which I've just listened to on Sounds. I'm so grateful for the facts and clarity I find on this board- it's so rare! About to text WH to ask them to explore further.

@futureghost

While absolutely in favour of single sex spaces, rights, protections and opportunities until such a time as female-bodied people have the same level of social, political and economic power as male, I am not convinced by the idea that men will adopt jobs or positions solely in order to seek out girls/women/children to abuse them. Sadly, I think it's more likely that these are crimes of opportunity and many more males (no, not all males) would abuse given the opportunity

So is your position that Jimmy Saville really was a philanthropist with an interest in healthcare? And it was just lucky that this also gave him access to patients?

I am sure that there are many men who take opportunities if they arise. But I don't really have any doubt that there are also men who deliberately organise their lives to provide those opportunties.

So is your position that Jimmy Saville really was a philanthropist with an interest in healthcare? And it was just lucky that this also gave him access to patients?

Jimmy Saville was a DJ/TV personality, a philanthropist with an interest in healthcare AND a pedophile/hebephile.

Did he arrange the details of his life within his career to provide more opportunities to abuse? Yes. Did he follow that career path from the day one simply to gain access to abuse? No. If he'd been a cab driver and not a DJ/TV personality he'd have abused passengers and most likely the women and children in his life. He took the opportunities he had.

(I suspect his career and his abusing both ultimately stemmed from a deep narcissism - the celebrity and philanthropy because he needed to be seen as a better/higher person than anyone else, and the abuse because he didn't see any reason not to take what he wanted and probably got off on the deception as yet more proof that the rules don't apply to someone as special as him.)

I think it's important we don't assume that abusers are just pretending they care about being a priest, a coach, a philanthropist or whatever simply to gain access to abuse, because it means people who genuinely are these things and ARE ALSO abusers can fly under the radar, and creates a situation where people think "Oh no, X can't be an abuser, you can see how much he really cares about those parishioners / athletes / patients", and because it implies there is a hard and fast line between “evil abusers” and the low-level debasement that women and girls suffer all the time from men when I think the latter is a lesser degree of exactly the same thing.

Exactly justcameout

But that doesn't stop posters on here equating women asking for single sex services with racial segregation. Single sex services are an attempt to redress the damage done by male supremacy. Racial segregation was to further entrench white supremacy. Incredible what people can be led to believe though.

Emma was great this morning. " With all due respect, you don't get to rewrite the question" best line ever!

"I think this is it. I was wracking my brains earlier to figure out if I'd ever heard a prominent cabinet member speaking on it and can't say I have."

Current cabinet member, perhaps not.
At one time, the Prime Minister, Theresa May, was chirping "TWAW" with the rest of them, though.
They still have Penny Mordaunt, Sue Pascoe, Crispin Blunt et al. selling the TRA line, so they're as divided as the rest, just that they're keeping quiet for now. Carrie Johnson is said to be pro-TRA, too.

The minute it suits them, or they're paid enough to do it, I expect they'll be back to the mantras.